 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2002-11-11 05:24
1) Do the 3M anti-tarnish strips do anything for nickel plating?
2) I just spent several hours polishing a silverplated clarinet. I used Mrs Wrights non-abrasive tarnish remover and soft cloth strips, felt pads & q-tips. Things go faster since I invested in a dremel tool--I was going to put felt over an electric toothbrush, but my wife caught me.) I gather that some shops simply dip the whole instrument into a bucket of pink stuff. What are the pros & cons of both approaches (besides the fact that I usually manage to snag and snap off a spring or two)
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-11-11 06:31
Hi, Jim
I find no reason the 3-M strips won't work as advertised. I just haven't had occasion to use them.
I have used the pink stuff, Empire's Tarnish Remover (from Ferree's), and find that it works well on silver plating and is pretty good for pre-buff cleaning of nickle silver. Put the item into the solution and watch the tarnish disappear in seconds then rinse well with water. I suppose Nickle Pickle from your local jewelry supplies dealer would work well too (it works better when steaming hot but not boiling) - though I haven't personally tried it on keys or flute bodies yet. It's fine for nickle silver jewelry. These chemicals will attack springs if left in for more than a few minutes. So, if you intend to replace the springs the pink stuff is probably the easiest.
My current preference is the two step tarnish removing cloths, one with polishing compound and one for hand buffing.
I don't need to tell you where I might find the electric toothbrush, after I regained conciousness, if my wife ever caught me trying something like that :| I shudder to think about it....
better we to stick with the polishing cloths, Jim, and live to talk about it.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-11-11 10:34
As far as I know, the 3M papers work by absorbing sulphur-based contaminants from the atmosphere in an inclosed space, such as inside a case.
As far as I know the dull white tarnish that is common on nickel has nothing to do with sulphur, so I would not expect the 3M strips to achieve anything.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2002-11-11 10:37
It is my understanding - however 3M will not share their trade secrets on the matter - that the primary constituent is activated charcoal which traps volatile - airborne - pollutants containing sulphur that tarnish silver. There are probably other chemical compounds that sequester these sulphur compounds. For I while I offered a "silver worm" as one of my products which was an active chemical pumping system containing activated charcoal and various other chemicals which removed the sulphur compounds trapped by the activated charcoal. 3M may be using a similar or different method -I do not know. My silver worms never really caught on and they were difficult and expensive to make so I dropped the line.
The Doctor
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2002-11-11 13:09
If you are considering dipping your whole horn in a bucket of pink (or any other colored) stuff, I suggest that it's probably a bad idea. Even if it takes care of tarnish, you don't know what effect it will have on pads, glue, cork, felt, wood, plastic and whatever other materials may be found on the instrument.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-11-11 14:01
Jim et al - Looking up the colors of sulfides and oxides of the ALLOY of nickel, copper and zinc [nickel-silver] and silver itself in my old C & P Handbook gives [potentially] a wide variety of tarnish colors, white/colorless, green and black, maybe even a red!! The whites are prob. oxides of all of the metals, and likely will require removal by buffing, the blacks are prob. sulfides [AgS is the best-known] with chem and phy methods [dips and adsorption [of H2S and RSH {mercaptans} by activated carbon] as well as buffing/removal] being useful here. Since both oxidation and sulfidation can occur to varying degrees, its a chemical jungle out there!! For my own part, I just leave the appearance of the metals alone, and concentrate on the playability. To each his own! Don
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-11-11 15:03
Although I like the appearance of non-tarnished silver I have never understood the phobia to keep all areas of silver plated keywork that way. If you remove the tarnish you just leave the metal open to tarnish again and again and finally remove all the silver plating completely. Wipe the keys down after playing to remove salt and occasionally wipe with the cleaning cloths mentioned above. Black areas on silver are like white hair....a mark of age and distinction....haha.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-11-11 17:00
Agree with you, Bob. I sorta like the character a little tarnish adds to my personal instruments
Need to clarify something right away about Don P's response. You don't dip the whole horn, pads and all, into ANY solution. This is an aggressive and quick tarnish removing step preparatory to a complete overhaul. The keys are taken off the instrument, the pads and cork removed - then the metal parts dipped. It's recommended that all steel components NOT be dipped. The items removed from the solution should be rinsed thoroughly, then blown dry (preferably using compressed air) and hand rubbed with a soft cloth to polish - or the cleaned parts can be very lightly polished using a cloth buffing wheel with jeweler's rouge.
An alternative to the 'dip solutions', for pre-buff cleaning, is plain ol' detergent in hot (but not boiling) water. The cleaned parts still have to be hand rubbed or machine buffed to bring them to a nice shine again.
Pads treated in this fashion would certainly be ruined - corks, glue etc., might hold up... but why risk it? I think we're talking about completely replacing all the 'software'.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-11-11 22:57
To add to the chemical jungle, I have had an experience of polyurethane vanich fumes rapidly and severely tarnishing new nickel plating.
BTW I have heard that nickel and perhaps rhodium are sometimes/often added to the silver in silver plating, to reduce the need fro final polishing, and/or to reduce future tarnishing.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2002-11-12 04:30
If silver keys are so hard to keep free of tarnish, why don't people just get the nickel plated ones? That's what I have. And me personally, I just care about how the clarinet sounds, rather than the looks, and I think that the silver vs nickel shouldn't affect this that much.
Alexi
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-11-12 08:02
In some environments nickel corrodes very quickly to a dull, rough, off-white. This is far more difficult to remove than any tarnish on silver, and is more unatractive than any tarnish on silver. Furthermore, with some people's perspiration, nickel quickly pits and then corrodes away the base metal in the pit holes.
Bright nickel plating is far more slippery than silver, particularly for people with sweaty hands.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-11-12 12:57
Someone should market a hand cream for clarinet players that neutralizes perspiration's corroding effect
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2002-11-12 17:53
Hmmmm. I guess that answers why my fingers occasionally slip off the key. I didn't know that nickel was more slippery. I thought that I was just a moron cause my left hand pinky occasionally completely slips off a key. Now I know what could be a part of the problem. Thanks.
Alexi
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-11-13 10:11
YOu sure won't slip off the keys if you give the nickel some white tarnish. It is almost as grippy as fine sand paper.
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2002-11-25 14:48
I took some of the comments to heart. I just restored a Penzel Muller and instead of polishing, I cleaned with q tips dipped in alcohol and clamped in a dremel tool. This got a lot of crud off of the horn. I did use polish on the tops of the tone holes (and inside) because I wanted these surfaces really clean. I also polished the four bottom pad cups because ...well, because I couldn't help myself. Anyway, the result was pretty good and did save time. (I do like a nice gleaming metal clarinet. However, sometimes the best horns got played to most and therefore have the most plating wear. If the beauty in the box stayed there because it couldn't play, well, I know which one I want to lug around.)
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