 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2002-11-06 19:39
I'm struggling badly with bars 20-22 of the last movement. (OK, I'm struggling with every bar, but at least I can finger the rest of the movement.)
I'm playing B4 with the LH, C#5 with the RH, A#4 with the normal fingering (not the side key) and F#4 with the side keys.
Any better suggestions? I've tried playing F#4 with the 1st finger only, but that's even worse.
I'm playing a standard Boehm.
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-11-06 20:12
Well, I'd finger the F# with L1, and the A# standard, but I'm not sure what your ultimate difficulty with this passage is. Is it evenness? Intonation? Speed?
Could you clarify?
Katrina
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2002-11-06 20:53
My difficulty is that as a relative beginner (I've been playing since April 2001) I simply can't play the passage at anything like the right speed. Evenness and good intonation would be bonuses; first I need to play the right notes without slowing down drastically.
I find L1 for F# is even worse, because I'm bad at getting my finger between the hole and the A key. That's something I need to work on anyway, regardless of how I play this passage. But I wondered whether other players would agree with the fingering I've chosen for this passage.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-11-06 21:36
David...I would agree with Kat, and play the F#4 with left hand first finger. Using the 2 lower right hand keys for the F#4 will create a bigger chance for uneveness, as that fingering would involve coordinating 2 hands, rather than one.
There are some creative ways to practice this passage:
1. Change the articulation - try it slowly with 2 slurred, 2 tongued or any 3 slurred, 1 tongued just to focus more on the fingering itself
2. Play multiples of each note - make each note 2 eighth notes (or 4 sixteenths), again just to pay closer attention to the finger movement.
3. the most obvious suggestion - slow it down to a largo speed. Then work with a metronome - gradually increasing the speed as your fingers memorize motion.
All of the above suggestions are to make your brain and fingers more flexible, and to break the passage into small digestable pieces.
Good Luck...GBK
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Author: Ken
Date: 2002-11-06 22:21
David, obviously, other than our opinion it's not relevant if anyone agrees with your choice of fingering; your ability to negotiate the passage accurately/musically with the best combination for you is the issue. I will say in my own case, using the side F# is awkward and promotes extraneous motion. Mastering the flexibility between the A# and F# with the LH index finger is a rudimentary skill that will come in time. Probably, the popular combination would be alternating left to right beginning with the D-B natural 8th pick-up, left side B to right side C#, descending on standard fingerings, repeat finishing up on the right side C# half in measure 22 (2 before A). These measures actually serve as a good example (and practice opportunity) of incorporating daily arpeggio and tremolo exercises in your routine...especially the area(s) in question. You might try, when descending and using the standard A#-F# focus/concentrate specifically on covering the F# and simultaneously releasing the thumb off the register hole. You'll also set yourself up better for the lower C#. v/r KEN
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Author: Ken
Date: 2002-11-06 22:23
pardon, thumb off the register "key"...
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Author: earl
Date: 2002-11-06 22:28
Use the usual first finger, left-hand F#. In the measure 22, the passage will go much better if you can simply keep your right-hand little finger pressing the C# throughout the entire measure. In that measure (22) it will also help if you have the 2nd inversion of the F# major chord (descending) and the root position C# minor chord (also descending) thoroughly in you fingers and brain.
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-11-07 04:36
David,
Just a hint for that R1 finger movement...
Make sure your right fingers are at an angle, slanting down towards the holes they cover. That way, your first finger can be in a position to push the A key when it's already covering F#.
I have to encourage most of my students to do this so that their R1 movements will be efficient. You don't wanna hafta make a motion of taking your finger off one note and then make another motion to play the next. Try to keep any transition involving the A key one which uses _only_ one motion.
Katrina
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2002-11-07 05:53
David,
The essence of this passage is smoothness of movement and sound.
To this end, I have three simple suggestions for you to try.
Firstly, your last post suggests to me that you "lift" your L1 finger between F# hole and A key. I would seriously try "rolling" your left wrist up. Think about this as only one movement, whereas lifting L1 from its hole and depositing it on the A key is 2 movements and leads to placement inaccuracy and poss delay in response.
Secondly, try to keep your fingers generally low on the keys to reduce excessive finger movement. This would be a watchword for clarinet playing generally, but not to the point where you flatten the notes !
Thirdly, for me this passage is best played by using "thah" instead of a more percussive tongue attack. This promotes the lovely legato feel with the phrasing being kept intact.
Remember, when you see a flurry of sharps or "black notes", the tendency may be to rush. Be conscious of this and think "time". Write "TIME" on your copy to remind you. This way you'll relax into this beautiful passage.
Keep honking !
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Author: Robert
Date: 2002-11-07 07:36
Kat wrote:
>>"Just a hint for that R1 finger movement...
Make sure your right fingers are at an angle, slanting down towards the holes they cover. That way, your first finger can be in a position to push the A key when it's already covering F#."
Kat, either you play the clarinet with the right hand at the top, or you were actually meaning to talk about the left hand fingers?! :-)
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Author: HAT
Date: 2002-11-07 13:35
To me it is an issue of being comfortable playing in f# major in all its permutations. Regular practice in all keys will never make f# major feel or sound like c major, but at least it won't be a foreign language.
Whatever fingerings you decide to use (personally, I don't see how the side f# makes any sense but that is neither here nor there), practice the passage at an extremely slow tempo, but make the connections between the notes quick and snappy (never mind legato for the moment). This is to drill the patterns into your nervous system. As you very gradually speed it up, change the mental conception to a smoother one. The concept should guide you to a more legato style of slurring.
It's not an overnight process.
-HATTNER
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-11-07 17:54
Yeah, Robert, I goofed! I did mean left...
I always have this problem...you'd think that at age 34 I'd know my left from my right... ;^)
Katrina
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Author: earl
Date: 2002-11-07 18:56
In my post, third up from this post, I misnamed the C# chord as minor. It is, of course, C# major descending root-position chord. Unfortunately, there are very few, if any, clarinet scale books with seven sharps and seven flats scale patterns. In the Baermann, one can find some enharmonic relativity in the Db major section as well as in the section on Chords of the Seventh where the Gb key signature affords a good work-out in the C# enharmonic of Db.
The measure refered to, bar 22, is an exercise if I - V - in the key of F# major. Being in the left hand "throat" register, it has its awkwardness. I've always found that if I have the courage and good habit of keeping the rib-cage expanded (as it is when we take a breath) throughout any passage, easy or difficult, the sound, intensity, etc. is maintained.
Hope all this is helpful.
E.T.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2002-11-09 12:23
I agree with HAT.
Feeling comfortable in F# scale and arpeggios in every possible combination solves the problem once and for all.
Alphie
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Author: Dee
Date: 2002-11-09 12:33
Since you've only been playing a year, I would suggest putting Brahms away for awhile and work on your scales, arpeggios, and somewhat easier clarinet works. Brahms is advanced work and in attempting to master it at this point, you will be skipping practice on a wide range of basics that need to be covered. Skipping the basics will cause you problems that will surface everytime you go to a new piece.
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Author: Ken
Date: 2002-11-09 22:24
It's a cold day in h*** when I disagree with Dee but I feel that incorporating the right "balance" in one's practice routine is also vital to musical growth and promoting interest. I personally don't have a problem with a beginner dabbling and/or having fun with an advanced "standard" as long as they've fullfilled their rudimental lesson requirements. (Caveat: if they show up wih a chart that's so far over their heads it'll screw up their chops, i.e. Martino, Nielson, Corigliano, Five Pieces, any Bozza etc.) For the serious student, cutting loose every day and having good clean FUN on the horn is a needed/healthy outlet; it gets them coming back; it's perfectly natural for us to "pretend and dream" we're great players and act that out. I encourage my student's to horse around with advanced pieces; they can have dessert as long as they first eat their dinner. v/r KEN
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Author: Dee
Date: 2002-11-10 13:30
Basically I was making the same point, that one cannot ignore the fundamentals to play or dabble with stuff that is over their head. I have no problem with a person playing around with it. It's just from his description of his struggles, it sounded like he was spending too much time on it.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2002-11-11 10:09
Dee...
When I wrote the original post, I wondered whether someone would ask the question "Why are you playing Brahms after only 18 months?"
Certainly not because I fancy myself as some sort of prodigy.
But I'm 45, with quite a lot of music experience, was once a reasonably competent recorder player, so my answer is - I'm playing this Brahms movement because I _can_ play it, apart from these few bars. Sure, I don't sound like a pro, but I don't sound like a pro when I play Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star, either. Most likely I never will.
I know this is a crazy question to ask when you've never heard me play, but what sort of pieces would you recommend I should be studying? Real pieces, not etudes.
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