 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jenna
Date: 2002-11-05 16:50
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=919920318
Any idea why someone would do such a thing to a horn? Any reason or just some unexplainable, unfortunate incident for this clarinet?
(I'm referring to the removal of the side trill keys and the plugging of the holes.)
Also, notice the lovely artwork on the bell. =)
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2002-11-05 17:05
Well, I've heard that "e-fers" were hard to tune, but this seems a bit much!
Bob A
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Author: Robert
Date: 2002-11-05 18:46
I've seen people plugging holes on C and E-flat clarinets, because they felt that the keys got in the way. But why plug THOSE holes??
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-11-05 19:11
I have a very good idea why, Jenna. But a reason - no. All I can offer is: consider the location :|
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-11-06 01:33
You've heard of "Full Boehm" Clarinets? Well, this one must be an "Empty Boehm." The truncation of the G#/D# key is also interesting. It leads me to think that perhaps the player had rather large fingers, and some of the keys interfered with his playing. For the "art work," I offer no explanation.
Regards,
John
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-11-06 01:44
Artistic license pushed beyond the realm of common sense.
- ron b -
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Author: Wes
Date: 2002-11-06 07:29
A fine clarinet player I know removes the left Eb key or blocks it as he won't use it, saying that his teacher in St. Louis didn't believe in using it. He had a problem selling a clarinet when he couldn't find the key. The user of this clarinet probably felt that all the removed keys were not needed.
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Author: Melanie
Date: 2002-11-06 07:59
I know we were forced to remove some of these keys on our bass clarinet last year when the keys were beyond repair. We put corks in the wholes until we were back from our tour, but I can't see that being the case with 5 keys.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-11-06 14:11
I don't remember where I read this, but Herbert Wurlitzer did many experiments and said he tried to use as few holes as possible, which was one of the reasons his instruments played so well. The writer counted holes and replied that Wurlitzer's German system design had more than the Boehm design, which made Wurlitzer quite embarrassed.
Benade has material on this, too. I haven't read Horns, Strings and Harmony or Woodwind Acoustics for quite a while, but I remember he said that acoustically, the fewer holes in the body, the better.
At the Clarinet Congress in London many years ago, there was a round-table by Buffet, Selmer and Leblanc designers, and they were asked why they hadn't removed one of the Eb/Bb holes on the upper joint and had both levers open the same hole. The response was that there was no demand for it. The Buffet representative, I think, said they had made a "simplex Boehm" clarinet, leaving off the top three trill keys and the Eb/Bb sliver key for the left ring finger. He said it had sounded and responded much better, but that once again, nobody was interested.
The clinician Bob Lowrey had a personal model instrument (Conn, I think) that had the Eb/Bb sliver key left off. He said it improved the response.
For the same reason, Steve Fox's instruments have no Eb/Bb sliver key hole. The key is hinged at the other end and opens the right-hand bottom trill key.
Presumably the eBay Eb has the holes filled in all the way to the bore. The smaller bore volume may affect the tuning, but it should improve the playing qualities.
Another possibility is that the original owner had large hands and had trouble reaching the Eb/Bb side key without brushing the upper trill keys. However, if that had been the problem, it would have been simpler to cut off the key touches, and not have to fill in the holes.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-11-06 14:25
I looked at the pictures again and saw that both the Eb/Bb and the B/F# sliver keys have ben cut off and the holes filled in. Again, it could be for acoustical reasons or to make extra room for large fingers.
Ken Shaw
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-11-06 19:11
Ken,
As an aside, if the sliver keys are in the way of larger fingers (a problem I often have myself), a better solution than removing the keys altogether is to narrow and sometimes also shorten them, leaving more room between them and the adjacent rings or open hole. Also, the keys can be recurved a bit (in both the horizontal and vertical planes) for less interference. I do these sorts of modifications frequently when I overhaul clarinets, especially types such as Boosey & Hawkes, Thibouville Freres, etc. that have especially fat sliver keys.
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2002-11-07 14:49
I have what I think is a plausable explanation:
This horn was owned by a clarinet teacher or a clarinet teaching parent. The keys were removed to facilitate a small child's playing it without opening the wrong keys while attempting to play in the key of C. The Eb was chosen for this mutillation because it's small size fits small children. The modified keys could also have been done to clear the way for better access to keys used more often... however I don't see why they cut the keys down after already learning a hole plugging method and experience the joy of key removal.
The "semi-artistic" decoration is a bit of a mystery... all I can say is that when my daughters were participating in Suzuki violin classes it was the rage to place "semi-artistic" stickers all over the instrument. I guess that keeps the player interested in his/her personalized instrument.
<center><img src="http://pages.sbcglobal.net/thorlick/images/1.jpg" border="6"></center>
All I can say is that my hypothesis seems to fit the item a bit closer than anything yet posted. What we have here is an early attempt at a child's "simplified Boehm system" clarinet!
TH
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-11-07 15:31
Your guess is as good as anyone's and could be entirely correct, Terry, but your thoughts raise more questions about this chop job.
Why do you suppose the alternate C key was left in place? Seems to me if your hypothesis, that it's to accomodate a child's small hands, is correct that would have been the first 'in-the-way' key to go
You'll notice also that the Eb/Ab key has been filed (shortened). This wouldn't facilitate anything for little fingers.
rb
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-11-07 17:14
Terry, I'm rather tired this morning, and perhaps my powers of deduction are still asleep. But I don't feature the removal of several keys and the grinding away of part of the F/C key as an attempt to make the instrument more suitable for a child. To me, this would be the equivalent of removing one or two strings from a violin to make it easier to play.
I would much rather believe this mutilation to be a product of necessity rather than convenience. Maybe this is partly an emotional set of thoughts on my part, but I don't think so. If one is trying to simplify a Clarinet, who's to decide which keys to remove? The child? Or some well-meaning adult who would have to figure out what good might be done by removing some keys and leaving others? Small children really do occasionally ignore the toy and play with the box. It takes an extremely knowledgeable person to understand what is most likely to appeal to a child. Furthermore, if one wanted to minimize a Boehm Clarinet for simplified fingering, I would think the first thing to go should be the bridge mechanism. It's a pain in the neck, easily damaged in assembly (especially by a child), and there are already a couple of fingerings for Eb/Bb -- even if the sliver key is removed. Nope, I don't feature this as a "simplification" attempt. Seems to me more likely someone had to do this in order to play the instrument satisfactorily.
Of course, I could be all wet. And I'm pleased not to have been exposed to widespread instrument "decoration." Cases covered over with all kinds of stickers, that's one thing. Painting and sticering the instruments, that's another. But I suppose it's nothing different from custom decor or paint on a car..
Regards,
John
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-11-07 17:16
OOps, I goofed. It isn't the F/C key that's been ground away, it's the G#/D# key. ron b, I'm glad *someone* is minding the store.
Regards,
John
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-11-07 20:35
Looks like a "crock of ****" to me - wouldn't touch it with a blow torch.
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2002-11-07 20:39
Remove the bridge mechanism? John, you have lost me there... how do you do that on a one-piece clarinet? That alt. C would be a problem to my hypothesis, but if you are right, what malady would have effected the player to require this kind of set-up? Why put the steeles back into their positions? Perhaps the owner had kept keys for replacement and didn't want to loose them.... but then why loose the keys?
Perhaps it was used by a small primate in a circus.
Terry
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-11-07 21:11
I quite agree with the above analyses/hypotheses on this [poor] horn. Perhaps the owner/dismemberer was frightened by a Full Boehm, and this was an over-reaction. Or, in the early stages of learning, didn't realize the benefits of the removed keys. ?? Don
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-11-08 06:00
Terry wrote, among other stuff: "Remove the bridge mechanism? John, you have lost me there... how do you do that on a one-piece clarinet?"
Wow, tnat's a great question, Terry. Beats me, I guess.
And now, back to my improved six-key Tonette....
Regards,
John
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Author: dez
Date: 2002-11-08 11:37
Gotta go with Terry here, it is someones attempt at a kinderclari, all that is different is that they left the left hand C key on. It can also explain the decoration, definately for kids to play on.
Dezza
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