 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: bob49t
Date: 2002-11-04 06:25
Anyone got any interesting comments about this appealing item.
I'm looking for an Eb but at this vintage can I assume this one is for military purposes, is high pitched and not suitable for modern orchestral playing ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=916566282
Thanks in advance for advice.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2002-11-04 12:59
Hi bob47t:
This Haynes clarinet is a very rare and a highly collectable clarinet.
I thought of bidding on it myself, but I think the price will go too high.
It will probably be purchased by a collector, as Haynes, the famous flute company in Boston, made very few of these.
I played a set of Haynes silver, double bore clarinets years ago, and they were great! They are worth thousands of dollars.
Try looking for some more common and affordable Eb clarinets. I'm sure you can find Buffets or Selmers at local music shops, or on eBay.
Just don't jump at the first thing you find. The pitch is always the main concern with used, older instruments; especially Eb clarinets.
Good,
JJM
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-11-04 13:44
John is absolutely right about eefers and pitch --- there can be expensive ones with lousy intonation and cheap ones that play in tune --- I'm fortunate to have one of the latter, a 1930s or '40s-vintage hard rubber M. Lacroix Eb clarinet, purchased on eBay for about $100, that after overhaul plays wonderfully in tune from bottom to top (and of course a good mouthpiece is CRUCIAL). The Haynes would be fantastic to own, but is definitely not for the faint of wallet.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2002-11-04 16:20
I believe the listed dates to be totally wrong. Check Rendall but he spoke of Haynes as if it were current at the time he wrote his book, which was the middle of the 1900s. Thus it ought to be in modern pitch. If the case is original, which the seller did not say, the case style is consistant with the middle of the 1900s not the late 1800s/early 1900s.
The bid is likely to go higher than even the top of the line professional Eb clarinets available today is a Haynes silver clarinet is indeed a highly sought collector's item. An Eb is even less common than a Bb. So if you are looking for an instrument to play, this one isn't it regardless of its pitch standard. Now of course if you are a collector, that's another story.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-11-04 17:22
Dee: I do not share your conclusion re the instrument's likely age. Rendall (Third edition, 1971, p14) mentions Haynes in one paragraph on metal Clarinets, which begins: "Metal has been used in clarinet construction for many years." There is then a reference to an instrument made in 1847. Later in the paragraph is found the sentence, "The last fifty years have seen an attempted revival." Note that Rendall was first published in 1954.. The only statement directly regarding Haynes (who is not found in the Manufacturers Index) is, "...Mr. W. S. Haynes of Boston stressed the 'thermos feature' of his sterling-silver clarinet." Past tense. This does not drive me to the conclusion that the instrument for sale would be of mid-century manufacture.
I do concur with you, Dee, that this is in no way an instrument for everyday playing, regardless of its pitch, unless a buyer has far more discretionary income than I.
Interesting design: the offset L3 hole, similar to the offset G of many flutes. Perhaps it is not that uncommon, but I do not recall having seen this feature on any other Clarinet.
Regards,
John
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-11-04 19:52
John -
As far as I know, all clarinets have the left ring finger hole offset. Certainly my R-13 does, and so do the old metal ones. More or less at random, see http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=916898933.
The Haynes Eb hasn't even made its reserve at $1,125. It'll probably go for at least $2,000.
Charlie Ponte told me years ago that Haynes copied a Selmer, and the Bb I played in his store felt and played like a Selmer. The H. Bettony silver clarinets were made on a Buffet model. I got a silver Eb a couple of years ago that's excellent. Alexander Williams told me he played one in the NY Philharmonic.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2002-11-04 21:16
Note that metal clarinets were made by various manufacturers as late as the early 1970s. Thus saying that metal clarinets were made as early as 1847 is pretty much irrelevant in dating this Haynes.
I'll have to find my copy of Rendall to verify but it certainly sounded like Rendall was talking of the Haynes in a semi-contemporary manner. The statement in Rendall does not lead one to believe that it could be from roughly 50 years earlier either. It's just as likely that it was discontinued a few years before the book as several decades before. Either one is past tense.
IF it is as old as the seller states, then the case is definitely not original. Of course the seller doesn't indicate anything one way or the other about the case.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-11-05 00:27
If it's by:
John C. Haynes - Boston, 1861-1900
George Winfield Haynes - Boston, 1886-1889, LA 1898-1905, NYC 1905-1912, 196-1930, Providence, RI 1912-1916
William Sherman Haynes - Boston 1900- sometime after 1950
William Winthrop Haynes - Boston 1913-1921. However, W. Winthrop legally changed his name to William S. Haynes Jr. (!) and called his company "The Haynes Flute Co." Was forced by a court order to change the name of his company to Haynes-Schwelm in 1921
The "Thermos" clarinets are identified as "Haynes & Co." and are by William Sherman Haynes.
There also were Haynes-Schwelm (Boston, 1921-after 1950) double-walled metal clarinets. Established by William Winthrop Haynes & John G. Schwelm (who later was foreman for Powell). In 1923 Schwelm quit; 1928 started making double walled metal clarinets in Providence with the Haynes-Schwelm name.
Excerpted from <i>The New Langwill Index</i>
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-11-05 06:11
Dee, I can agree with your last post. But I still do not conclude that Rendall's information makes the eBay seller's stated age information unbelievable. As you suggest, the case can't be used as anything definitive re the instrument's age, but it certainly appears to be fairly recent.
Ken Shaw: Well, a quick sampling of five instruments near me in the last five minutes shows three without the offset, *but* they are all old stuff, 1880s-1920s. The two newer ones, a Noblet and a Couesnon, both have a slight offset. I had absolutely never noticed that before. Perhaps its prominence on the Haynes caught my eye as it had never previously been caught. Thanks for the info!
To me, it is difficult to tell whether the sale instrument is single or double wall construction. As it is an Eb, although the tube appears rather large in diameter, that might be because of the pitch of the instrument.
Apropos of very little: of the only two no-name Clarinets I ever played that were better than worthless, one was a metal Eb. It had been a USArmy Clarinet, had broken apart, and was offered to schools as surplus. My high school bought the thing for a pittance, had it repaired, replated, and repadded. It had the best intonation of any eefer I have ever played.
Regards,
John
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
