 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Kim Pittaluga
Date: 2002-11-01 11:36
Has anyone ever heard of a Martel or a Jean Carter clarinet? The Martel was given to me in high school by a family friend whose husband played in the Buffalo Philharmonic during WWII. The Jean Carter was just given to me by a friend for my child and I am interested in any information about these instruments. Thanks.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-11-01 11:47
Try a search on the BBoard - lots of info on Martel.
No info on Carter; none in the New Lagwill Index, too.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-11-01 12:53
I believe you mean Jean Cartier? These have been discussed on the BB in the past -- generally you'll find one of two models, a "14-K" student model, and an "Artiste" advanced model -- both are (in my limited experience) competent instruments.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-11-01 22:43
Our local music store had [may still have?] a J C ?Artiste? model [had much "great" stencilling on it's wood]. I worked on it, a quite good player, well built and well in tune for an early cl, I'd estimate about 1930. I vaguely recall seeing a Martel. Don
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Author: Kim Pittaluga
Date: 2002-11-02 05:04
I looked up Martel on the Bboard as suggested and did find out some information. I am still confused about the "false Martel's". My clarinet is stamped Martel with ornate M's above and below the name. I can't find a serial number on it. The lady who gave me the instrument told me her husband played in the Buffalo Philharmonic during WWII. It has a wonderful sound. I play for pleasure but both of my daughters have started playing on the Martel. It is also longer and has some different keys than a normal clarinet. The Jean Cartier...yes I did spell it wrong was also given to me and I just dropped it off to be put in playing condition for my oldest to play. How can I find out what they might be valued since my children play them? I would hate for anything to happen tothem. Thanks for all of your help.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-11-02 16:22
Since they're not rare and famous clarinets, they're valued in financial terms for what you could by them for on eBay - probably between $100 - $300 or so. If it's a full Boehm it might be worth a bit more.
As long as they play well you've got a good investment.
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Author: Douglas
Date: 2002-11-02 22:50
The Martel Freres clarinets have an excellent reputation in England as well as France where they were made. Kell was said to have borrowed a set when he had to record or play especially important concerts. The "false" martel story is that Draper used a Martel with trademark removed and then overwritten with a Boosey trademark. Boosey (this is before Boosey & Hawkes) copied the Martel for their early clarinets. The story on the Martels is in an older Clarinet magazine. Will look for the issue date and post it later. Of the two instruments you list, the Martel is most likely the superior instrument. Martel Freres should not be confused with Martin Freres, another company.
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Author: graham
Date: 2002-11-03 09:52
I play on a pair of Martels stamped Hawkes & Sons, but not a full Boehm. They were probably made anytime between about 1905 and 1914. The premium Hawkes models (Excelsior Sonorous Class) were made by Martel in this period, but probably not after the Great War. Both Drapers and Kell played on them regularly. I have never heard of Kell borrowing them, as I think he owned a pair. Charles Draper is said to have borrowed an A to record both the Mozart and Brahms Quintets, but that was because his own Martel A was not as good as the one he borrowed. Both were Martels. I have used my pair since 1987. They are not as easy to play as a modern instrument but the sound is very individual and more the sort of thing I like.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2002-11-03 23:51
My understanding is that Kell played on Martels until he became something of a spokesperson/salesman for B&H 1010s in the 1950's.
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Author: Douglas
Date: 2002-11-04 01:37
I finally had time to look up the Clarinet Magazine article which I had mentioned in an earlier posting. The issue is Volume 17, number 4, July- August 1990 and the article is "Charles Draper and English Clarinets" by Nicholas Shackleton and Keith Puddy. My reference to Kell is from this quote, " Kell's instruments were not Martel but what were apparently known in the interwar years as 'fake Martels' actually made by Hawkes & Son. However, it seems that whenever Kell had an important recording or concerto concert involving the A clarinet, he borrowed a 'real Martel' clarinet from one Frank Hughes." I had owned a Martel Bb which I later sold...it did have a beautiful sound but intonation was a bit of a problem compared to the Buffets I was using at the time. Whatever the story of who played whichever Martels and when, the Martel clarinets were of some importance and Kim should be pleased to have one. Shackleton, by the way, is probably the premier collector of historic clarinets.
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Author: graham
Date: 2002-11-04 09:01
Douglas, the article is interesting to hear about but leaves some questions in my mind. The thing about Hawkes was that they "made" fake Hawkes's. The Hawkes Martels were not stamped Martel. If they have two stars, both above and below the Hawkes stamp, then that apparently means they were made by Martel. I had that point confirmed by John Myatt (who sold the instruments to me) and later by John Steward (of Howarths) when he did some work on them. But the problem with Hawkes is you cannot be absolutely sure which French maker was involved at which time because Hawkes wanted to keep the real makers secret. There is therefore a possibility that Kell was unsure whether his instruments were Martels or not. The same may perhaps be true of both Charles and Haydn Draper for the same reasons.
It seems very likely that post Great War instruments from the Hawkes stable were not Martels, as they are not so stamped. I played on a 1920s example once, but it lacked the character of my Martels. Perhaps these are what are referred to by reverse logic as "fake Martels" although of course they make no claim whatever to being Martels, but are only stamped Hawkes.
There is a lot of room for urban myth in this area. That said, Shackleton and Puddy would be the kind of people to know best on this topic, so, doubts notwithstanding, theirs is the most likely version to be true.
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Author: Kim Pittaluga
Date: 2002-11-04 21:00
Thanks to everyone who answered. I do feel very lucky to have both the Martel and Jean Cartier. They were both given to me. I have not had a chance to play the Jean Cartier...it needs a total repad before it can be played. I love the Martel and would not part with it. I was interested in it's history. When I started playing it back in middle school my band instructor told me I couldn't play it with the band because it was an A clarinet...he couldn't figure out though why it sounded like a Bb. It is a Bb with extra keys. The place where I get my instruments repaired had never heard of one either. I appreciate all of the help and now know that my children have good intstruments.
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