 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Michael McC.
Date: 2002-10-28 00:26
You've probably seen these little vortec things you put in the air intake of your car to make it run better. The theory is that it spins the air around, filling the whole manifold instead of just a little bit. Well I was at home sick one day last week, and watching T.V. and was wondering if such a device would work in a clarinet. Some kind of attachment in the barrel that spun the air around? Is this practical, or just delirium?
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Author: joevacc
Date: 2002-10-28 00:56
Try it! You'll never know if your on to something unless you try it.
You might have to power it via battery to keep the air stream consistent. Or maybe it could have perpetual properties and assist you as circular breathing can... or .... maybe,...
well enough speculation, give it a try! I'd love to hear the outcome of your experiments.
Best,
-=[Joe Vacc]=-
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-10-28 01:15
Michael McC. wrote:
>
> You've probably seen these little vortec things you put
> in the air intake of your car to make it run better.
I work for a car company. If putting those things in the manifold really made the cars more efficient, the companies would do it immediately to meet CAFE standards.
But it wouldn't hurt to try putting something like that in a barrel, but remember - the clarinet works not via airflow but by creating standing waves (air column vibrations) from the mouthpiece to the first effectively open hole. You'll be disturbing that in some way - but perhaps a good way. The experiment should be relatively cheap to perform, too!
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-10-28 06:59
Just because no one's done it yet doesn't mean it won't work.
You may already have discovered something quite extraordinary - that TV is useful for something 
Anyway, as some folks say: nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2002-10-28 07:29
There are spiral inserts sold to enhance the performance of various wind instruments but I've never tried them.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-10-28 13:44
I worked as a tech-expert in the inventions-patenting field for many years, and agree with Mark C re: the "carburetor-mixer-screems-fans" etc worthless-nonimproving device scams, happily finished-off by fuel injection. That being said, M McC's potentially-patentable idea caused me to read a bit in Benade's "Horns, Strings and Harmony" about basic acoustic and fluid flow in "tubes-pipes" and ponder the "complications" which B well expresses. I rather doubt the idea's work-ability considering the pulse-generated, "standing wave" , low air-flow character of sound production, but would like to see proof, yes or no! As a thot, the only added-energy device [in musical tubes] occuring to me so far, is a recollection of "fans" at the bottom of ?marimba? "resonating tubes", maybe for generating vibrato?? Others, please help! Don
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Author: graham
Date: 2002-10-28 16:22
Don, isn't it true though that if you make a public declaration of a potentially patented idea before having the IP protected by a lawyer or patent agent then you probably lose the right to patent it at all?
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-10-28 17:03
Kalmen Opperman showed me a spiral-grooved left thumb hole insert he had made, on the chance that it might improve things. He said it made no difference. However, when I'm anywhere near an operating fan when I play, there's a definite effect. Maybe if I wore a propeller beanie....
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-10-28 18:59
Don Berger wrote:
>
> As a thot, the only added-energy
> device [in musical tubes] occuring to me so far, is a
> recollection of "fans" at the bottom of ?marimba? "resonating
> tubes", maybe for generating vibrato??
Vibraphone ;^)
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Author: Nick
Date: 2002-10-28 23:03
I'm wondering if this would have a negative affect on the tone, though. Although I don't really understand how the fan device works, I know that when I play in my room with the window fan on it sounds like.. well, someone's playing a clarinet next to a fan. You know how your voice gets all robotic sounding when you speak into a fan? That happens when I play near one. Would the proposed device do this, too?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-10-28 23:42
TKS, Mark, knowing next to nothing here, I'll look for info! Graham, in the 200 years since the US Constitution provided for patent-trademark-copyright protective laws, our lawyers and Congress have been busy, writing, revising, criticizing [the recent flap over drug patent practice, p. e.]. I cant speak to TM and CR practice, but patenting needs disclosure to an "understanding" person, legally best by a written document [with drawing etc if applicable], signed/dated by the potential inventor, and signed/dated by "disclosee" as Read and Understood By, not just a witness! I diagrammed one of my best pat. ideas on a blackboard, explaining it to co-workers, intending to turn in my PI form the next day, did so, and a week or so later, found out that our Patent Division was forced to decide that a co-worker was the inventor by a one-day diff in invention date!! Very Much Larger corporate inventorship/patent application-filing, validity and infringement litigations are quite common, often much money is at stake! Sorry about this length, Graham, I believe you are thinking about the "conversion to practice" ["commercially"] restriction, another can of worms!! I better quit!, there are MANY books on this! Don
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Author: Michael McC.
Date: 2002-10-29 02:07
What I was thinking wasn't a fan, or something that moved, but something with "blades"? on it that spun the air, like a static pump (if that helps any). I never said that the things on T.V. worked, just an idea. If I can come up with something to build it out of, I'll try and report back.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-10-29 03:45
I'd think 'plastic', at least in the prototype stage(s)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-10-29 14:59
M McC - I made a quickie patent search [www.USPTO.gov] using clarinet AND spiral, finding a pat. {US}5,303,628, Salazar [NY], appearing to employ a spiral-grooved mouthpiece. The "prior art" cited against it is the Hall-Zinner pat. 5,105,701. I'd suggest you look at Salazar, and if you wish, try your hand at patent searching using different words and time periods. Will help further if you wish. Luck, Don
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Author: Mark P. Jasuta
Date: 2002-11-13 03:31
No pressure is built up in a clarinet no matter how hard you blow. The air causes the reed to vibrate against the mouthpiece. The vibration travels down the bore. When it reaches the end it is reflected back and produces a standing wave node. This is the sound you hear. Opening and closing tone holes moves this node up and down the bore to change the pitch. (Bear in mind this explaination is VERY basic.) The slots or grooves may make good slobber drains, but not much else.
Mark
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