 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Karel
Date: 2002-10-26 06:43
I have a friend who is hurting her lower lip practicing on her sax for exams. I have made her a guard as a short term solution. Can the sax be played with a double-lip embouchure to cure the "biting"?
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Author: Karel
Date: 2002-10-26 11:22
Thanks, John. My difficulty was the fact that her teacher has told her the double-lip is an oboe technique not suitable for sax. I don't think the teacher is overly knowledgeable {highschool), but I did not want to contradict her without checking. Although I could not see why it would not be OK when even I can do it on clarinet.
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Author: Tom Piercy
Date: 2002-10-26 14:26
Although a band director may correctly and easily say that double lip is an oboe technique and single lip is for clarinet and saxophone, that comment is merely stating the standard or most usual techniques employed. Double lip is used on clarinet and saxophone (I use double lip on both). As one of several "cures" for biting, double lip is great for improving sound and articulation. Although at this point it may be too close to the exams for the student in question to make the switch full time to double lip, double lip for small amounts of time (3 to 5 minutes) will help her from biting for the short term. After experimenting with double lip, she may also feel or realize how much she is currently biting and may be able to correct the problem when switching back to single lip.
For more comments and helpful suggestions, search here in the BB archives.
Tom Piercy
thomaspiercy.com
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-10-26 17:59
For oboe/eng horn/bassoon there is no choice, a dbl reed requires dbl lip. Having played much sax and sop clars, playing more bass/alto cls now, I find I go from dbl to single with hardly noticing which! Its dependent on what character music is being played and what tonality is needed [I GUESS] p.e. marches/classics, just "doi'n hut coms nachurlie". Don
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2002-10-26 22:04
When I first began to study saxophone with Joe Viola at Berklee he noticed that I was using a double lip embouchure. It was a habit that I picked up somewhere along the way (I started on alto when I was 8) and none of my previous teachers corrected it. Joe had me basically start from scratch to change my embouchure to a single lip as well as work on my tone production. After 3 months my sound was VASTLY improved -- total night and day difference. Using a single lip embouchure made a big difference for me.
Personally, I don't think that the biting problem mentioned in Karel's message is caused solely by a single lip embouchure. If that was the case there would be a lot of players walking around with sore lips. Rather, there are probably other reasons for the biting. It would make sense to me for the friend to work with her saxophone teacher to determine the root cause of the biting. It's possible that switching to a double lip embouchure may mask the problem.
Having said all that, I recently made a change to the embouchure that I use on c-melody. I use a single lip on clarinet, soprano, and alto. Over the past year I've become good friends with Ralph Morgan. I use his mouthpieces on all of my horns. In working with the c-melody mouthpiece that Ralph made for me he suggested that I take in more mouthpiece than usual. Ralph's advice helped to open up my sound even more. However, in this more forward playing position my embouchure wasn't comfortable and it wore out after only an hour of playing. (This doesn't happen to me on my other horns.) Based on an intuitive hunch, I tried lifting my top teeth off of the mouthpiece. An important point -- I didn't curl my top lip into a double embouchure. Rather, I kept it in the same position as I would with a single lip embouchure. This made a HUGE difference in my playing. My embouchure no longer wears out and the sound coming out of my c-mel is absolutely wonderful.
This experience tells me that while there are general guidelines that we are taught to follow in music, we need to find the particular way that works best for us.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-10-27 00:11
I agree with Roger's second paragraph; something else must be the cause of the problem. I would suggest that the player might be using a reed, mouthpiece, or both which may be improper for the player's embouchure to handle, and biting the reed (right through the lower lip) could be the only way to produce satisfactory tones. This can likely be avoided by selection of a reed/mouthpiece combination which better matches the student's ability.
Then again, I could be all wet. But it should be worth a try.
Regards,
John
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Author: Wes
Date: 2002-10-27 02:52
One can check the sharpness of the lower teeth to see if they are the cause of soreness to the lower lip. A dentist can be consulted to see if the sharp lower teeth can be dulled by an abrasive.
While some fine players use the double lip embouchure, the single lip embouchure is still the most used by far. It permits more of the mouthpiece to be in the mouth and allows the clarinet to be held in a more stable way. Good luck!
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2002-10-27 18:06
Some saxophone teachers and band directors get into a rut with recommending a particular kind of mouthpiece and reed set up. Clearly, one size doesn't fit all! Embouchure fatigue can come, in part, from having a set up that isn't matched well to the player. Of course, as we've discussed, there can be other reasons as well.
Personally, I prefer a fairly middle of the road tip opening (.075 on alto), medium chamber, and softer reeds (#2.5 Alexander Classique). Specifically, I use a Morgan 6M mouthpiece. This set up is easy blowing, flexible, and the sound is extremely warm and rich. It goes against the grain of using a more narrow tip opening and stiffer reeds. Never the less, it works for me.
One thing that Ralph Morgan suggested to me is to figure out how the sax players in the big bands could play all night, close to 7 nights a week. Their embouchure had to be relaxed. Thus, the key is to find a set up that gives us the sound we're looking for in the most relaxed way possible. Part of this is the set up and rest is in our playing.
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