 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Big Ben
Date: 2002-10-23 12:06
Hi Everyone,
I was just wondering if anyone can tell me how the clarinet sections of professional orchestras arrange/organise the seating for particular works that have parts doubling different types of clarinets. For instance: Mahler's 5th Symphony, where the 3rd clarinet part covers Bass, Bb & A and Eb. I have played this piece once in the past where the second clarinet plays the Eb part instead of the third, however this was a once off.
Do professional orchestras strictly stick to exactly what is indicated on the parts or do they swap around sometimes as well. I'm assumimg this would be varied depending on the playing personnel, but I'd be interested to know anyway....
thanks...
Ben
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Author: pete
Date: 2002-10-23 13:28
Ben Seatings in pro orchestras differ around the world. I can only tell you about the situation here in England. In my experience most of the orchestras have three clarinet postions, a principle, a second doubling Eb, and a third doubling bass. Sometimes they have four, two of which are principles, one usually doubling, for example the London Symphony orchestra has four players on contract, Principle, Co Principle who doubles Eb, second player and third who doubles bass. When it comes to the large works freelancers are usually brought in to cover the extra parts but the principle players play all four parts (1st, 2nd,(1st) Eb,(1st) bass). Hope this helps.
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Author: James
Date: 2002-10-23 14:16
I believe in chicago, and don't shoot me if im not 100 percent correct... Principal plays first generally, assistant principal plays first on concertos and plays Eb Clarinet, the 2nd plays second and usually does not double and the 4th person plays Bass clarinet. I hope this helpls answer your question
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-10-23 14:39
It varies according to circumstances and which player is best on which instrument. In a Chicago Symphony concert at Carnegie Hall broadcast a few days ago, one of the clarinetists was absent - I think Lawrie Bloom, the regular bass clarinetist. Greg Smith stepped up to play 2nd, and John Bruce Yeh, the regular 2nd, played 3rd, bass and Eb.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: rmk
Date: 2002-10-23 16:44
Actually, Greg Smith is the usual second player and John Yeh is the asst. principal/Eb. However, on the broadcast you are referring to, Mr. Yeh did play Bass, a position he held in the orchestra before winning his present chair.
(BTW Ken, I haven't forgotten your request, I just haven't gotten around to unpacking my cassettes yet)
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Author: Larry Liberson
Date: 2002-10-23 16:51
A couple things...
First, to Ken: As far as the CSO is concerned, Greg is the second clarinetist while John is the assistant principal. Therefore, Greg was just where he was supposed to be!
Next, my humble little orchestra also uses four players. The parts for Mahler 5th would be assigned this way: Obviously, first and second clarinetists have their parts, which are undoubled (as far as Eb or bass are concerned). The third part (which doubles Eb and bass) is divided between the other two players: the assistant principal/Eb/third (or whatever...) plays all but the bass clarinet parts while the fourth player (who is the bass player) only plays the bass parts. Of course, he runs out of music by the middle of the second movement...but he gets in a lot of quality reading time.
Generally, most orchestral clarinet players have certain duties within the section that are specified contractually.
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-10-23 16:55
On this topic, what about Mahler's FIRST...
There are 4 clarinet parts, with 1st and 2nd requiring Bb, A, and C clarinets. The third (which I was assigned way back in college) requires Bb, A, C, Bass, and Eb. The fourth gets (if I'm remembering correctly) Eb, Bb, A, and C.
The real problem with the orchestration is that in one of the movements has TWO eefers, with the "Bass" clarinetist being assigned the "first" Eb part. What we did way back then was to transpose the "second" Eb part (in the "real" Eb clarinetist's part to the Bb horn. I played that part on Bb, and the "real" Eb player played the "first" part on eefer.
I hope that makes sense...I've only had about a third of a cup of coffee so far...
And does anyone know how the major orchestras solve this dilemma?
Katrina
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Author: Gregory Smith
Date: 2002-10-23 17:41
Four basic things seem determine the distribution of parts regardless of officially contracted positions for any particular orchestra.
1) Repertoire requirements in addition to a player's need for time off/on throughout the year (most importantly including doubling parts).
2) Availability (L. Bloom was ill and that is why J. Yeh was playing Bass Cl. on the Carnegie concert).
3) Flexibility when it comes to expertise on various instruments in addition to their need for time off/on throughout the year.
4) Conductor's preferences in having the final say-so as to assignments within the guidelines of a players position.
Perhaps there are others which I'm not thinking of but those are off of the top of my head at the moment.
Gregory Smith
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Author: Larry Liberson
Date: 2002-10-23 19:25
In answer to Kat's query re: Mahler 1st -- well, I'm sure just about every orchestra does it their own way. I can only relate ours.
Although it might seem confusing, the 3rd player (in our case, the assist./Eb) would play the 4th part, which is primarily that for Eb clarinet (there are four solitary notes at the end of the third movement for Bb clarinet). The 4th player plays the 3rd clarinet part (still with me?) as it has bass clarinet in it along with, as you mentioned, clarinet and Eb clarinet.
However, in the third movement, the Eb parts are switched so that the "regular" (notice I didn't use the word 'normal' ) Eb player is playing the upper line of the duets.
BTW, I don't know what your particular instrumental situation might have been, but I would not endorse the idea of substituting Bb clarinet for the Eb clarinet in the 3rd movement, as it alters the mood and flavor of the music -- and not necessarily for the better.
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-10-24 00:51
Yeah, Larry, it was just in college, and I wasn't exactly the world's gift to bass clarinet playing, if you catch my drift!!! So the option of me ALSO playing Eb at all at that point was NOT really an option...the bass was more than I could handle, and that was the solution devised by our clarinet prof. Ultimately, for a college orchestra, it didn't SEEM to be a huge deal...it was more important for me to play the opening concert A in tune!
I don't remember what the instrument situation was at that point, but there may not have been 2 decent eefers available as well...
Katrina
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