 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Nick
Date: 2002-10-19 01:54
Okay, for the past few weeks I've noticed that my barrel doesn't go on as easily as it did when it was new. I cleaned out the joint ends (if there was dried, caked on grease buildup) and regreased the cork and it went on sort of smoothly. However, it's stuck right now. I mean really, really stuck. I can't get it off.. it won't twist in any direction, it won't move up or down (it is slightly raised from the top joint for pitch correction).
What do I do to get it off?
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Author: Melanie
Date: 2002-10-19 02:23
Have you tried wobbling the barrel back and forth on the upper joint? Sometimes this little movement will help it come loose.
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Author: Heidi
Date: 2002-10-19 03:27
I second the "wobbling" idea. I find that it helps alot...also, when you do get it off finally, make sure to put ample cork grease on it overnight so it will...sort of, "soak in." I've found this to help alot. Also, make sure it's in an air conditioned environment...if not, the corks can swell and it can become very difficult to take apart. Also, it might help just to leave it in air conditioning so the corks will shrink again.
Good luck!
Heidi
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Author: msroboto
Date: 2002-10-19 03:37
consider bringing it in to have the barrel relieved a bit so that this won't happen again.
i had to do it to my clarinet a couple of years ago.
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Author: Susan
Date: 2002-10-19 03:38
Are you sure it's a cork problem? It sounds like maybe wood is binding against wood inside the tenon. I'd have a qualified repair person take a look at it.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2002-10-19 07:54
Yes, a qualified repair person can take care of it. If I had this situation, I would try side to side wobbling of the barrel first. Then, I would see if I could insert a little bit of a single edged razor blade between the sections without damaging anything. Sometimes they can be carefully pried and wobbled off with the razor blade in the crack between the joints. Good luck!
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-10-19 11:51
Almost certainly it is the timber jamming, not the cork. This happens with almost every new Selmer or Buffet coming into New Zealand. Usually someone with strong hands can free it by gripping very firmly and twisting.
iIf that fails.....
You say it is not pressed on all the way, so a razor blade will be too thin for the technique Wes mentions. So find something that fits firmly in the gap on one side, say the back of a table knife, slide this in, and then wobble the barrel (an action as if breaking the clarinet in half) towards this side, hence opening the opposite side a little more. Then insert something that just fits that side, and wobble towards that, and so on, until it comes free.
The cure is to reduce the diameter of the timber part of the tenon. This is best left to somebody experienced at doing it. It is clearly a swollen tenon rather than a shrunken socket, because there is never a problem like this with the mouthpiece, where the tenon is dimensionally more stable because it is not made from timber.
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2002-10-19 14:25
I agree with Gordon that the problem is a swollen tenon. This happened to me when I left my clarinet assembled, so that moisture was in contact with the tenon for long periods of time. I found that swabbing it out, and then waiting a couple of days, dried it out enough so that it could be disassembled. This could probably be accelerated by aiming a fan at it. Once I realized what the problem was, I was able to minimize recurrence, by using a lot of cork grease on the end grain of the tenon, along with a tuning ring to fill the gap where the moisture was accumulating.
John O'Janpa
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Author: Marcia
Date: 2002-10-19 17:57
This happened to me several times with my recently new Buffet. If I just left it for a while I would be able to get the barrel off, but I did take it to a repair person who shaved off a bit of wood. It is definitely a wood problem not a cork problem and it won't likely stop binding till you have a bit of wood removed.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-10-21 15:14
Nick -
I agree with Gordon and John that the problems is with the wood swelling, and not the cork. This is an emergency and needs to be fixed right away, since it's a frequent cause of upper joint cracks.
However, I disagree with Gordon and John about where the swelling is, and the solution. The problem is almost always swelling at the bottom of the barrel socket and not the top of the tenon. What needs work is the area at the very bottom of the socket.
It's very important to take your instrument to a repair shop that has a reamer for the socket. If the repair technician proposes to file down the end of the tenon, take the instrument back immediately and go to a place that has a reamer. All the work must be done in the socket, even though this is harder to do than filing down the tenon. Barrels can be replaced much more easily than top joints, and if you file down the end of the tenon, it will never fit another barrel.
As a quick check of where the wood has swelled, put on another barrel and see whether it "bites." The repair shop will probably have a micrometer or precision caliper that will give you a measurement to compare against a non-binding tenon.
Good luck.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-10-21 20:58
Ken, I have facilities for removing timber from the bottom of the socket, so this is not a cop-out.....
1. The jamming is more often than not as soon as the tenon is inserted 2 mm. This does not even involve the bottom of the socket.
2. I have asked you before for evidence of your assertion, and not seen it. I repeat....
In my considerable experience of jammed tenons, a mouthpiece NEVER jams unless it didn't fit in the first place.
If the cause of jamming was from sockets shrinking then the mouthpiece would jam just as frequently easily as any other joint - indeed more, because this is where most moisture is. On the other hand, remembering that hard rubber is more stable in moisture than timber is, if it is tenon swelling that is the cause, the mouthpiece tenon would not jam. As this is the case, simple logic suggests that it is the tenon rather than the socket that is responsible for the jamming.
I ask you again, what is your evidence otherwise?
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-10-22 15:18
Gordon -
The bottom socket has shrunk on almost every Buffet barrel I've had -- at this point, close to 20. I made the mistake, on my first R-13, of having the top of the upper joint tenon filed down, which made the joint unstable every time I pulled out.
The advice comes from Kalmen Opperman, who uses a reamer to fix the problem. He told me that the tenon almost never swells, and you should always adjust the socket.
The proof, for me, is that other barrels fit the unaltered tenon.
Your experience is different, but I'm speaking from what happened for me, and with the advice of the man who knows more about the clarinet than anyone I've met.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-10-22 22:23
Hmmmm. Very strange.
"He told me that the tenon almost never swells"
1. It is well known that timber swells when it absorbs water. I have no reason to suspect that granadilla acts differently.
2. If both the socket and the tenon are made from timber, and neither has metal reinforcing, is there any reason why the tenon timber should not swell as much as the socket timber? It is all damp timber.
3. When a solid cylinder of metal expands form heat, the diameter increases. Likewise, a hollow metal cylinder, being a portion of a solid cylinder, expands so that both the inside diameter and the outside diameter increase.
I see no reason why this effect should not apply to timber swelling form moisture, i.e. both the outside and inside diameter increasing. Sure, there may also be a small effect of the fibres swelling INTO the bore, so putting these two phenomena together (if indeed the second one exists) I would not really expect decrease in bore diameter caused by moisture. So I have just started an experiment soaking an old barrel in water.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-10-23 11:13
I'm experimenting. I've set a gauge to the bore diameter of an old grenadilla barrel, removed its reinforcing rings, and filled it with water to see how the bore changes.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-10-23 13:39
Gordon -
Very interesting experiment. Kal Opperman tells me (and has shown me with diameter gauges) that the bore of a new barrel usually shrinks enough to affect the playing quality. He expects to re-ream a new barrel several times over the course of its first year until it stabilizes. The adjustment is small - 0.001 or even less. Strangely, the adjustment is mostly at the bottom.
I'd appreciate it if you would start a new string when your experiment is finished. This one is about to scroll off the second page.
Thanks.
Ken Shaw
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