 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: John Elison
Date: 2002-10-14 20:05
Hello Everyone,
I just discovered this wonderful bulletin board about a month ago and I find it fascinating and exceedingly educational. About four months ago I pulled my clarinet out of storage and decided to begin playing again. I hadn’t touched it in over 10 years, but it still plays reasonably well and I’m having fun getting back into it. However, I’m just an amateur who played in high school orchestra and then for my own enjoyment for many years thereafter. I’m 54 years old, now.
The reason I’m writing is to ask for some advice from the Buffet experts in this forum. I have a question about an e-bay auction I recently bid on. The URL is as follows:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=913260976
I’ve never owned a Buffet so I though I would attempt to buy a used one. Unfortunately, I think I may have jumped the gun on this one. I guess my concern is whether this clarinet is really an R13, or whether it might actually be a lesser model. When I plugged the serial number (439224) into Buffet’s web site it said the instrument was manufactured in 1997, and this is what I based my bid on. However, judging from the pictures, it looks older than that, or else it is rather beat up. It’s my own stupidity, but I didn’t look closely at the pictures before placing my bid. I basically just accepted the fact that it was an R13 manufactured in 1997. Now, I’m wondering if it’s possibly not an R13, or if they got the serial number wrong. Can any of you Buffet experts take a look at the pictures and give me your opinion on model and condition of this instrument? I would be greatly appreciative for any advice you can provide.
I also intend to write the seller, but I though I would get some opinions from this bulletin board, first.
Thank you very much.
Best regards,
John Elison
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Author: Mark S.
Date: 2002-10-14 20:36
Sure looks like the real deal (Buffet & Cie. logo, R13 imprint on barrel, keywork looks right), but looks a little tough to be only five years old. That isn't necessarily a bad thing if it is a good axe. Only playing it will tell you for sure.
With no reserve and such a low initial bid, it does make you wonder if it is legit, or if the seller is clueless. Do be careful -- make sure you have a return option if it ain't what was advertised, and check the AFM.org stolen instrument registry to make sure it isn't hot.
Good luck in your search!
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2002-10-14 20:38
I believe all R13s have metal rings on the tenons. This one doesn't appear to have them.
If it's an R13 and he's willing to accept bids like those, he doesn't know what he's giving up.
I was recently issued a nice Buffet from a community band in which I play. I asked here for clues to determine if it's indeed an R13. I was told to look for metal rings around the tenons and for three slots cut underneath the right hand paddle keys. All were present on mine.
Still, it looks like a nice horn, especially for the price.
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Author: Dez
Date: 2002-10-14 21:02
Um... unless I have missed something, all R13 Buffets(I have seen) have NO metal tenon rings. This auction is definately for a R13 so go ahead and bid madly on it!
Dezza
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2002-10-14 21:08
Was I told wrong? Or does the Prestige model have the rings?
< http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=84451&t=84424>
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Author: Mark S.
Date: 2002-10-14 21:15
Just bought a brand-spankin' new off-the-boat R13 Bb (silver-keyed) and there are no metal tenon caps on it. I've got three other R13s spanning the last 30 years that also have no metal caps.
My Prestige Bass does, so who knows. Somebody on the board owns a Prestige Bb and can weigh in here.
M.
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2002-10-14 21:23
I guess I'm mistaken. Sometimes it's good to be wrong. Bid away, Mr. Elison! Lowball 'em!
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-10-14 21:44
This is a fairly new (1996) R-13 - see the serial number chart at http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Equipment/HowOld/Buffet.html. The serial number is over 400,000, so the quality (at least if it was bought in the U.S. and had Francois Kloc's Platinum Service) should be reliable.
For an instrument this age, the bidding will probably get close to $1,000.
The R-13 Vintage model is the one that has the metal tenon caps. The regular R-13 does not.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: John Elison
Date: 2002-10-14 22:39
Thank you for the excellent input. I feel a little better about it now, although the instrument looks pretty rough to me. If I don’t win it I won’t feel bad. I’ve got a maximum bid of $200. I think I’d rather pay a higher price for a nicer looking clarinet. But, if it is truly an R13, and I end up with it, I’ll probably have it completely refurbished.
Thanks again for your input.
Best regards,
John Elison
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2002-10-14 22:58
John Elison,
No way you'll win it for $200. If you had $800 on it I would say "MAYBE" you have a chance.
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Author: kenabbott
Date: 2002-10-14 23:04
Not necessarily, Vytas. I got a 1959 FB R 13 in good condition for $400 a few months ago. I was more than willing to put a few hundred into it to make it a gem.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-10-14 23:46
I agree with Vytas. There are a lot of eBay "regulars" who constantly monitor (especially) the Buffet clarinets that come to auction. Often they are purchased for the sole reason to "flip them" the following month or so. Any R13 that sells for just a few hundred dollars has a serious defect, or is sold "as is" (read: "take your chance")
As was previously stated, the final selling price will most likely be between $850 - $1100...GBK
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2002-10-15 00:59
kenabbott,
Congratulations on your purchase, but you really can't compare resale value on a fairly new R13 and a Buffet from 1959 even if it's in mint condition. BTW, some people wouldn't buy Full Bohem at all and I'm one of them. Just like you, I was lucky to buy nice R-13 from 1974 for $358.00 because seller had no idea what he was selling and plus had lousy description. IMO, those are just exceptions.
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2002-10-15 07:08
Vytas,
Why would some folks buy a FB at all? I can't imagine this. I love my FB, in fact I sold my 1954 R-13 in mint condition because the FB is more fun to play. So if you have a second please inform me.
Terry
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Author: David Kinder
Date: 2002-10-15 14:13
All you need to do is get it cleaned up and polished! It looks like it has never been oiled. I would oil the outside of the clarinet (and the inside as well) and get the keys polished up.
If I were bidding on a used clarinet (in that condition) I would include in my "mental" price an additional $200 to get a full overhaul done by a local tech. I think this clarinet could be a "diamond in the rough" and as long as it has no cracks, it could be restored to its full beauty.
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Author: kenabbott
Date: 2002-10-15 14:35
Exactly. Only the cost was more like $400 for Wojiech at Roberto's to take a look.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-10-15 15:13
Regarding the metal tenons...I think I saw at least one Buffet Greenline with metal tenon caps
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Author: Stéphane
Date: 2002-10-15 17:08
I don't think the fact it was a Greenline is relevant to having metal rings on the tenon. As far as I know, all Buffet R13/RC Prestige and Vintage whether greenline or not do have those metal rings. Regular R13/RC (greenline or not) don't.
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Author: Sandra F. H.
Date: 2002-10-16 12:00
My eBay rules state to always email the buyer with questions before bidding, especially on a "high ticket" item. Ask where the seller acquired the instrument, if all serial #'s match, etc. Check the feedback to see how many instruments the seller has sold. I've purchased some duds on eBay and some treasures. Sandra
No, not all R-13's have tenon rings; see Ken Shaw's post.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-10-16 14:43
Regarding the Greenline I was referring to "tenon caps", not rings.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2002-10-16 16:23
David,
This clarinet may or may not be R-13. I believe that Buffet introduced R-13 in 1955, but the instruments I'm talking about started with serial number 50,000 and the throat Ab/G# and A keys got separate posts which is distinguished future of 1955 R-13 clarinet. Also, I believe that Buffet made some prototypes prior 1955. Is your clarinet R-13 (prototype)?? hard to tell, you will have measure bore of the instrument.
"IF" the ring on the upper joint to close the crack was installed professionally and the crack itself was not severe you MAYBY have a "diamond in the rough"
I quietly passed on this one without biding.
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Author: David Kinder
Date: 2002-10-16 16:33
My purpose for purchasing this clarinet is just to have a secondary instrument. For less than a student model clarinet, this one is wood and is (supposedly) of professional quality.
With the logo on all 4 pieces, an old R-13 looking case - at least it would be a E-13 equivalent.
I'll have fun with this one until I get myself a Buffet Festival clarinet!
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2002-10-16 16:45
David, there is no doubt! You got yourself a professional instrument. Just without measuring the bore you"ll never know if you got R-13 or Pre R-13
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Author: David Kinder
Date: 2002-10-17 03:39
Oh well. Who cares? I don't! I'm just going to have fun with it, and now I have my "outdoor" clarinet for when I don't want to use my future Festival.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2002-10-20 20:05
Final selling price - $759.00
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Author: Dan Dieter
Date: 2002-10-24 03:51
To continue. I have a Buffet and was wondering the same thing myself. What are the distinguishing characteristics of an R13? How can one tell for sure. My Buffet has the three cuts, flattened areas on the lower joint, and no tenon rings. Serial number is 162814. The Buffet site says 1975 if it is an R13. Any help?
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