 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-10-13 23:47
Okay, so I did a search on the BB for info on them, but came up with very little concrete stuff. Can anyone tell me the differences between the different bores and facings? Someone keeps putting piles of them on eBay. I'm a little less tempted to get one after reading an ancient post here that talked about crystal mps being even less consistent than hard rubber. I heard Chris Speed play a few months ago, and man was I impressed by his tone! I'm wondering if it's just a crystal mp in general that can create such fluidity, or if it's just the individual...
Katrina, who even now is trying to avoid the worms from the can she's just opened...
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Author: William
Date: 2002-10-14 00:30
I think that you will find (and this has been dicussed many times) that the material of the mouthpiece is not as important as the specific accoustical characterists of manufacture--custom or "stock". The big advantage of a crystal mpc is that it will never change. If you find a "good one" that plays well for you, it will last forever. However, they are fragile and easily damaged if dropped or bumped. Hard rubber is less likely to break, but over time, will warp and wear just by use. But soundwise, crystal and hard rubber should have the accoustical results--you just have to find "the one" that plays well. (The "sound" you heard coming from Chris was probably 99% Speed and 1% mpc set-up)
Also, (as you probably know, but for the record) beware of cybersales. I bought a "no name" crystal mouthpiece (I think it is an O'Brian *stencil*) and, while it plays "ok", it will never replace my hard rubber favorites (Kaspar, Gregory Smith). My point is: Try before you buy--unless you like to gamble and are willing to lose.
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Author: d dow
Date: 2002-10-14 01:57
Dear Kat:
The O'Brien mouthpieces are usually in 1, 2 or 3 facing designations. they go from closed to open. As far as my own thoughts on them (I have only played on a few crystal mouthpieces) I find the sound on the O'brien maybe too stuffy and certainly not to my liking in the throat and upper chalumeua range.
However, i also know as an instructor that everyone is different and of course they may be just fine for you.
I also dislike the way the O'Brien mouthpiece feels and reacts in terms of air and control of tone.
I would not be surprised if more of them appear. They were quite popular at one time.
Sincerely
D dow
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-10-14 02:07
They used to be very popular here a few decades ago, but then they came to be associated with poor intonation. The last local crystal enthusiasts preferred Pomarico to O'Brien.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-10-14 03:23
The O'Brien OCB (off center bore) facings went from 1 to 5+.
The facing descriptions were along the line of (if I remember the O'Brien actual descriptions):
1 - very short
2 - medium short
OB+ - "very popular"
2+ - more open
3, 3+, 4, 4+, 5, 5+ - progressively more open
As with all crystal mouthpieces, there could be a wide variation within the same facing, therefore I personally would try as many samples as is possible.
When I selected my pair of Vandoren crystals in the early 70's, I tried more than 20 before I found 2 that were satisfactory.
I still use these two today (very carefully) - and would suspect (barring the unthinkable) they should last a lifetime...GBK
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2002-10-14 11:29
I used an O'Brien years ago and it was great. It felt to me to be more fluid than the other options. I have a Pomarico Diamond, O'Brien have not been sighted in Australia for 15 or more years, which plays like a dream. I use them for recording when volume is of secondary importance. I find all crystal mouthpieces a little softer than rubber and not as good live.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-10-14 14:56
As I have posted before, I have a number of glass "crystals", 2 for bass cl [my preferred "regular"!], several for sop., even the remains of my first good one! Ah, Memories! My best Bb's are a refaced [to 5RVL] O'Brien, and a Selmer Clarion with a small table chip, quite classical IMHO. I prob. "need" one for alto, [might bid on the Ched! tho]. My first teacher {a French man] started me on a [too] "short" O'B and sold me "his" with a Full Boehm later, back in the '30's. I still select between Hard Rubber and glass, as seems appropriate for both the music and my "moods". Don
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-10-14 15:30
GBK,
Thanks...that was kinda what I was wanting to know. But I'm still interested in finding out just _how_ open they are. Are any of the tip openings comparable to a 5JB? If so, which facing comes close? Or does that even matter? Does anyone have any specs for me?
Katrina
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-10-14 16:17
Kat...The 5JB has a tip opening of 1.47mm (.057") and a facing length of between 22mm and 22.5mm (.866" to .885").
If my memory serves me correct, (and unfortunately I cannot find any O'Brien spec literature in my library) the most "open" O'Briens (the 5 and the 5+) had a tip opening in the range of 1.30mm (.051").
I am basing this on the fact that these felt very similar to the old Vandoren A3 crystal, which had these exact specs. The A3, however, did have a medium short facing length of 18mm (.708").
Not sure how much any of this can help you, as, short of measuring an actual one, O'Brien specs seem to be scarce...GBK
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-10-14 17:20
Any information can help, GBK...it gives me an "idea" in my mind, and that's all I needed...lol
I'm not necessarily gonna buy one...just wanted to be informed...
Of course, I'm still trying to get a "good" tone on my JB with my new used Selmer FB...It's a total departure from the "back-of-tongue high, focus" type of thing I was DRILLED in in the old classical days (now approaching 11 years since I had to deal with that kind of perfectionism...lol).
Katrina
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-10-14 18:49
Kat -
I've tried a number of O'Brien crystal mouthpieces over the years, but none of them suited me. Some great players (Gino Cioffi, Alexander Williams) have used them. Crystal seems to have more variability than other materials, probably because they're formed from molten glass, which shrinks as it cools. Thus, I'd never buy one without playing it first, or, at least, an agreement in writing from an eBay seller that I could return it for any reason or no reason.
All the crystal mouthpieces I've played, including a Selmer HS* that belonged to my first teacher and a handmade Opperman, have blown more freely than the equivalent facings in hard rubber. They also feel more open and thus need softer reeds.
Good luck in finding one that plays well for you.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Burt
Date: 2002-10-15 01:01
And somae mediocre players have have used them. John O'Brien made me two with custom facings. They were great - but I broke both due to carelessness, and went back to my old Woodwind.
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Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2002-10-15 18:07
Kat --
My experience with OB crystals would tend to confirm the specs given above by GBK. I played a #5 O'Brien for some time and then switched to a #3, which I keep for sentimental reasons and still play on now and then. GBK puts the tip opening of a 5 or 5* OB at .051. That is probably on the money. I know for sure that my #5 OB was as open or more open than a Selmer HS** (~.047"), which was a popular open facing in those days. Understand that the OBs had shorter lays than today's popular Vandoren mpces such as your 5JB or the B45. Closest match to an OB for length of lay in a new Vandoren would be a 5RV (but not a 5RVL), which would be about like a #3 OB.
Most of those old O'Briens on EBAY have a chipped tip rail (fatal) and those that don't may have been refaced. You don't know what you are getting.
Your web address suggests that you live in the Twin Cities area. I will bet that if you ask the older clarinet players in your area or check the bottom drawers and back rooms of the music stores and repair shops, you are almost certain to find a few O'Briens in nice shape which you can try out and then buy for a reasonable price.
Better yet, if you are determined to play on a crystal, why not try a Pomarico, which is a fine quality Italian mpce made by a company which is still in business and even has a website. And be sure to carry a spare mpce in your case.
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Author: d dow
Date: 2002-10-16 16:15
I have seen quite a few of these particular mnouthpieces with chips on sale...I don't think they are that much of a bargain when you consider you don't get to test it. As with all e bay its buy sight unseen.....not a great way to chooose something so vital to a player....
a new Pomarico crystal would probably be a better deal in the long term. You also know it is in mint condition.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-10-16 18:01
Count me in as another mediocre player using crystal mouthpieces (Pomaricos, refaced by yours truly) on both soprano and bass clarinets. They must be treated with care at all times, and one MUST have a backup mouthpiece available, but I really like the feel of crystal. I have no scientific nor empirical basis for saying that crystal SOUNDS better than hard rubber or whatever, but it FEELS like it sounds better, and that's what's important to this mediocre player. I've played a few O'Brien crystal soprano mouthpieces in the past, and their playing quality varied quite a bit, as with all mass-produced mouthpieces.
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Author: d dow
Date: 2002-10-17 16:44
Hey, crystal mouthpieces can really sound fine. Players like Cioffi swore by them, and if they suit your style and way of playing they can definitely be an asset. they also have fine tuning tendencies and I do like the Pomarico alot! I believe the current Principal clarinet with the Israel Phil plays on crystal and they sound wonderful. I would say a chipped O'Brien is definetely not a forward step, and of course we know Vandoren discontinued its line. I had an A1 which was very nice and traded for a B45, no great thinking on my part!!!
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