 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2002-10-10 11:12
I recently made a trip to Melbourne (Victoria, Australia) where I had a bunch of lessons with some teachers down there. It was really interesting in that they all talked about different things when i played to them (but thats another post altogether), but one of them talked about the angle/position of the mouthpiece in my mouth, and embouchure. He said he liked the formation of my embouchure around my chin area, but told me I have a lazy top lip which contributes to a lack of focus in the tone. It's funny how the other teachers said the tone was nice etc, but this guy thought it lacked something... and it was great getting his opinion. He got me to position the mouthpiece so that it went behind my top front teeth (so that the instrument is held almost straight with the body). He also got me to experiment with the use of vowels when I play, mainly using A (as in ahhh) and E (eeeeee)... E being the one which helped with focus in sound. My problem now is that after a week or so of working on his technique I have encountered a problem with my tongue which gives me the clicking sound each time my tongue touches the reed. It's really hard to get it to go away unless I move the mouthpiece back into the position I used to have it (not as much towards the back of the top teeth). What can I do about this? Should I just go back to what I'm used to, or will I eventually get used to this and fix the problem.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2002-10-10 12:41
'CLicking' sound?
Is this audible to listeners, or just internal (bone conduction)?
If it is not heard by the listener, why worry?
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2002-10-10 13:46
Nick
I know precisely what teacher you're talking about... And from first hand experience, he may tell you (provided you want to learn off him), that it is a problem with a lazy tongue as well.
It's a very quick touch on the reed - all you're doing is effectively stopping the reed from vibrating for the duration of the silence between sound.
Hold a note, then stop the reed with your tongue - keep the air going but the tongue on the reed so there is no sound. Keep experimenting with this and you will soon find that you have much easier and more effective control over your articulation while maintaining an even wind stream.
If you decided to come here and learn off this particular teacher, he will go into it in much more depth with you, so I wouldn't worry about it so much now - just make sure you do a good audition. Don't try to get his concepts under your belt, the auditioners will know how far you've come as well as realising your potential for adapting to this 'new' concept.
It took me about 2 years to get used to it all, and now, I could never go back! He teaches such an efficiant way of using the body to produce a fantastic sound with a very solid technique. He's giving me a great assett!
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Author: William
Date: 2002-10-10 16:54
Morrigan is right. I would add to try experimenting with your tongue arched in back of your mouth as saying a long, silent "K", rather than the eeeeeeeeee. The *K* sylable--in addition to focusing and "accelorating" your air support--will also pull your tongue back a bit to aid the articulative process. Give it a try and, good luck!!!
BTW--I think that the "clarinet parallel to the body" angle is a bit "too much." In real life clarinetting, one seldom sees that, even with those that we consider to be "the best." One of my favorite "bests" is John Bruce-Yeh (Chicago Symphony Orchestra Assis. Principal) and his performance angle is almost too "way out." But he does amazing things with his clarinet--and without a "click" to be heard.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-10-10 21:20
"Hold a note, then stop the reed with your tongue - keep the air going but the tongue on the reed so there is no sound."
We all agree on keeping the air pressure going, but to clarify....
Does this statement mean that you advocate:
1. Merely touch the reed but not close the opening, in which there will indeed be a hissing sound as the air continues to turbulently pass the gap between the reed and the mouthpiece (without the reed itself vibrating), or
2. Does it mean that the reed is pressed with the tongue to close against the mouthpiece (total silence), or
3. Does it mean the former but with the tongue itself also (fully or partially blocking the air from entering the gap between the reed and the mouthpiece to stop the hissing air sound.
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Author: Andy
Date: 2002-10-11 00:44
Nick,
I think you are talking about Robert Schubert and from memory with the lessons I had with him, that was one of his big things. It is a very interesting apporach but one that doesn't work for me! The students of his that do take it on however all end up sounding pretty good. Paul has great ideas on tone production and articulation though. As a wise man once said, "When home cooking is wonderful, why go out?"
Andy
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2002-10-11 03:05
The interesting thing is that I never had this problem until going to this teacher. Obviously it would take more time with him (months, maybe years) to completely master his approach to this area of playing... I like the Eeee concept alot, I think it is helping alot, but I agree with William that maybe the angle thing is going a bit too far. I think it's a matter of adjusting though, there's already been an improvement and the clicking isn't as noticeable as it first was. What Morrigan said about holding the note with the tongue on the reed etc is a good idea that my teacher had me do ages ago. Maybe I'll try it again. Thanks all.
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-10-11 04:17
Nick - g'day,
I suggest you speak to your Queensland teacher about this and see what s/he says ...
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2002-10-11 08:47
I have. He thinks its related to air, but I disagree. We both agree that I can tongue fasted when I concentrate on air flow, but after working on the stuff that Morrigan suggested (stuff I've done back in the past anyway) I'm convinced its about position... and it's already heaps betters. I'm beginning to not notice it so its all good. Paul (Dean) was going to "prescribe" an excercise for me to do, but we ran out of time in the lesson and he didn't have time to explain it, so he said it'd be better to wait until he returns from a tour he's just left for.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2002-10-11 12:36
There's a reason the clarinet is called a 'Wind' insturment rather than a 'tongue' instrument.
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Author: JUlia
Date: 2002-10-11 13:07
I'm confused about this "ee" idea. Making an "ee" embouchure would make the sound spread and be thinner. Perhaps you mean "ee" in the mouth, and not on the outside? That gets the tongue position high which is definitely desireable, but still keeping an ooh on the outside. It's like the french sound /eu/ thats more of an ooh than an ee.
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Author: William
Date: 2002-10-12 02:17
The reason I like the long silent "K" sound is that it--even better than the french "eu"--raises the tongue higher in the back oral cavity for better focus and (seemly) acceloration of the air. If you do it right with an open mouth, it will sound like a cat's hiss.
This arched tongue (cats hiss) concept, BTW, is not my original idea, but comes from a long conversation I had with Tom Ridenour when he was still with LeBlanc. Also, Ricardo Moreles had just visited the day before and it was mentioned that he shared the same conceptual idea regarding arched tongue and tonal focus.
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Author: nzdonald
Date: 2002-10-13 04:52
"high tounge position" (arched tongue etc) is the "good oil"- it's essentially what Stan Hasty taught at Eastman for a zillion years. The problem is, you have to keep an open and relaxed throat while doing it. The clicking sound you are now getting is because you are trying to focus your sound with the "eeeeee" vowel sound and this is constricting your throat. Try saying "eeeee" with a french accent so that the "eeee" is in the front of the mouth.
this is a long and complicated topic and i don't feel like writing another 1000 words this afternoon. Trust me on this one, i know what i'm talking about. Keep trying to get a focused sound (useful sounds to try- "chhhhhhhicago" "tchhhhhhues" (german for "see yah") "shhhhhoes" ) but make sure that you are not getting your high air speed by contsricting your throat. On this the Americans, the English, the Germans and the French all agree (i've studied with at least one of each).
by the way....
"staccato is neither a needle prick nor a hammer blow, but nothing but a "short long note". Don't kill it with your tounge" (Eric Simmon)
this might not seem relevant but.... it supports the concept that the tounge must stop the sound with the least disruption to the tone being produced... the tounge can do this most effectively if it is in the "high tounge position" as it will travel a shorter distance to the reed with as little disruption to airflow as is possible (prior to cutting off the sound).
Soooooo- "high tounge position" will improve your tone (more focus) AND your articulation AND probably your intonation (by raising the pitch of left hand lower register tones slightly). IF you can do it without getting all tense in the throat.
donald
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