 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-10-08 16:16
A recent post on Barbaros Erkose got me to thinking. Years ago a Greek co-Bb player wrote out some manuscript at my request. It had both sharps and flats in the signature that drove me nuts trying to play it. Anyone give me a clue...why both sharps and flats or was he pulling my leg??
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-10-08 16:59
Much of the music from Greece, Turkey, and the Balkans uses scales other than the major and minor ones most of us know. These modes are called makams. Their use is somewhat different in different musical traditions. For example, in Turkish music, the musicians stick with the original 1/4 tone versions of the makams as developed in Turkish classical music (related to Arabic music and makams...). In Greece this 1/4 tone stuff is still used but it's my impression that it is less systematic than in Turkey, where the indiginous classical tradition kept the makams much more codified. In the Balkans, the musicians just use "regular" notes instead of the 1/4 tone versions found in Turkey and Greece.
Ultimately, many of these makams DO require the use of both sharps and flats. The most common one in the Balkans (the music I'm most familiar with...) is makam hijaz. This makam uses the following scale: D Eb F# G A Bb C D. One of the coolest scales I've ever known!
So, sharps and flats in the scale are verrrrrry common, although some people just write in accidentals instead of including them in the key sig...
Katrina
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-10-08 17:00
Oh yeah, and most of the music I'm talking about would NEVER be written down...
Katrina
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Author: Seamus Kirkpatrick
Date: 2002-10-08 22:41
My understanding is that there are three different type of tones, one about semi tone size, one a bit smaller than semi tone and one a bit bigger. A smaller than semi tone one plus a larger than semi tone one equals about a tone.
The maqam are combinations of those intervals and when it's appropriate the musician can mess with the pitch utterly anyway (and there are only certain times that it might be appropriate).
That's one of the reasons the players prefer albert systems with soft reeds so they can get in tune. (Or out as may be appropriate)
Interestingly, the maqam are all associated with certain emotions and I was reading where Barbaros is taking the very modern step of playing a new type of style where he responds to the music in a way that he may seem emotionally fit (eg playing in a sad way if it sounds sad) as opposed to what is strictly advised.
But I think in a lot of countries (because of things like electric guitars) they're starting to straighten out the scales anyway.
Definitely sharps and flats in the same scale though.
All of this could be a lie too, because it's only stuff I read and tried to hear, and I haven't yet been able to talk to anyone who has actually played the stuff forever.
Which I hope to rectify some time soon.
cheers
Seamus
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-10-09 00:11
Kat said: "...This makam uses the following scale: D Eb F# G A Bb C D. One of the coolest scales I've ever known..."
Isn't this really just a G harmonic minor scale beginning on the 5th scale degree?...GBK
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-10-09 00:55
Yeah, Seamus, there is more than one kind of 1/4 tone. Since I usually only play Balkan music, I don't worry too much about them, so I always forget! lol...
To GBK: Technically makam hicaz is a G harmonic minor scale beginning on the 5th scale degree, but this is when viewed (heard?) by our Western ears. Makams (and I'm by no means an expert on makams) are really based on their "tonic" pitch, and most melodies in makam hijaz resolve from the subtonic to the tonic notes. Also, harmonically, the resolution is typically from a VII (minor) chord to the major tonic triad. In D hijaz, this would be a C minor chord resolving to D major. When you listen, the D definitely comes across as the tonic, and not the V of G minor.
Additionally in Turkish and Arabic music, makam usage is more than just the scale. Makams also, like Indian ragas, encompass certain melodic patterns and directions of the scale. There are many rules of which one needs to be aware as one moves to the east. Makams to the east of the Balkans also are "locked in" to being used only on one pitch. For example, hijaz would only be allowed on D. At least, I THINK that's the right pitch! Again, I'm no expert on makam usage outside of Bulgaria, Macedonia, and Albania. And I'm not an "expert" on makam usage in THOSE countries either, for that matter. I just happen to play a lot of tunes from those places! 
Katrina
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-10-09 00:57
P.S. There's a better explanation than mine in the New Grove's Dictionary under "Turkey." There MAY be some type of discussion under the entry for Greece also. Look for anything relating to the folk music or art music (in the case of Turkey) of these countries.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-10-09 02:00
Kat...Thanks for the explanation :-) ...GBK
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-10-09 02:38
You're very welcome, GBK. I only hope it's at least a little accurate from the music theory perspective; it's been many many years since I had my brain involved in that stuff! LOL...check Grove's too...I remember that one of those articles had quite a bit of stuff from the music theory perspective. Frankly, though, since most of this music is transmitted and conceived aurally, one needs really to listen to a lot of it!
K.
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Author: Seamus Kirkpatrick
Date: 2002-10-09 03:47
There's a very good book called The Music Of The Arabs by Habib Hassan Touma which, though it doesn't talk very much about Turkish stuff will actually clarify the usage of the maqam (in the Arabic sense) quite a bit (which is such a relief to have someone explain it).
I still can't believe that you got to see Barbaros Erkose, you lucky... (containing the rage, containing the rage)
cheers
Seamus
(Damn good definition of what makes a great concert too, Bill. Nice one)
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Author: Seamus Kirkpatrick
Date: 2002-10-09 03:50
Oh, Katrina and there is a Macedonian fellow in my neck of the woods, very fine clarinettist, but mostly interested in bagpipes and things he makes himself (very very interesting things he makes himself though).
Not going to stop me from having some lessons with him mind.
cheers
Seamus
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Author: Charles
Date: 2002-10-09 14:20
I really enjoyed this thread - a complete education on something I knew nothing about - thank you all for your generosity!
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-10-09 16:24
Many thanks to all for the information. Guess I still have a lot to learn. Bob
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2002-10-10 01:01
Katrina,
You are my hero. I have known nothing about Balkan music except I love to dance to it and listen to it. I've noticed your name coming up around subjects like this. I don't know how far I will go (in my playing I'm working on the Baermann scales) but what fun to hear this conversation.
Thanks, everyone.
Wayne Thompson
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-10-11 02:36
*Aw, shucks!* I'm not sure I deserve to be your hero...
Try getting out there and just playing some Balkan music, Wayne. There's a really good collection of transcriptions called the "Pinewoods" book. I'm not sure where you could get it, but try a Google search or something...
If you can work on Baermann scales you can play Bulgarian and other Balkan stuff too! Granted, Greek music _is_ a bit different in terms of makam usage, but you can get close enough for most of your folk dance community! And don't forget about the EEFC's annual Balkan music and Dance Camps...These cover everything from Hungary to Turkey and Greece!
http://www.eefc.org
Katrina
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Author: mary
Date: 2002-10-11 16:11
I also mostly play Balkan music, but I've been plowing thru turkish makam for awhile too. Turkish music, unlike the Arabic 1/4 tones, uses the "koma" as an interval, separating a whole step into 9ths. You would never use all these komas in a scale, but you have a lot of options on notes. Hicaz is basically like the 5th mode of harmonic minor, at least in the Balkans where the microtones are flattened out so the music sounds more tempered. Except in solo taksims where suddenly a clarinetist will often add the microtones and play more Turkish style (after all, the Ottomans controlled the Balkans until the last century- lots of Turkish influence, plus the roma-gypsies- who brought Turkish styles of music west as well)
Hicaz has some microtones too- the second degree is slightly high; the third a little low. The "dominant" of hicaz is actually the fourth and not the fifth. Additionally, different makams tend to be directional- either you start high, hang around the dominant, and end low, or maybe a different order. They each also have stock "signature phrases". A good improviser will let his educated audience know where he's going (unfortunately in that part of the world, clarinetists are pretty much all male) by the usage of these signature motives. Plus you modulate to different makams thru your taksim.
Makams are largely centered on certain pitches in Turkish classical music, but I haven't found that to be as true in the folk music world.
So you can see, to really get into this stuff, it's pretty thick! A lot to learn to really master it. I'm in the infant stages of actually being able to play it. Just dealing with the microtones on clarinet is a challenge!
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