 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: BeckyC
Date: 2002-10-07 15:46
I was accused of having hyper sensitive ears last night at practice.
For me it is becoming a bad thing, to the point I can not enjoy the practice.
I have a tuner that I carry with me to make sure I am in tune before we play. (We don't always tune with the orchestra, time restraint, I guess). But I will let my neighbors use it also.
Even if we are pretty much in tune, it still sounds awful to me. It sounds like it is ME so I will stop and listen to the others play and then I will jump back in. But a friend close by tells me that I don't sound as bad as I think I do.
I do have to say that the other clarinet player will not tune completely or even if she is in tune, her tone is off. That bothers me, BUT even so........It sounds like its me while I am playing.
HELP. I really CAN NOT enjoy playing like that.
Becky
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BeckyC
Date: 2002-10-07 16:07
I found the thread "tuning and tone" from May '02. I think I can understand what is going on now........BUT, I still can't enjoy it if it doesn't sound "good" to me.
Any advice? Or similar stories, so I won't feel so bad.
Becky
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pete
Date: 2002-10-07 16:09
sounds to me that you have got perfect pitch which is good in a way and bad in another, I used to play In a trio with a cellist friend of mine he also had perfect pitch which was sometimes hard in reheasals because of the tuning issue it was also good because it kept me on my toes. the only advice I can give is to try and block it out thats what my friend told me one night after a rehearsal in the pub. sorry I couldn't be more helpful.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron b
Date: 2002-10-07 16:27
Hi, BeckyC
In my opinion, your ears are perfectly 'normal' but your patience may be a bit on the thin side. Leave your tuner at home. For now it's a distraction rather than a help.
I've found over the years that most of us are way more critical of our own playing than we need to be. We're working on personal improvement at the same time we're trying to co-ordinate with our associates. Multiply this by a certain percentage of relatively serious players and it's not surprising that it takes time and a lot of playing for any outfit to 'get it together'. Just like any other group, band, orchestra or basketball - most performing arts are a team effort. Rehearsal, practice and playing together (without a tuner lurking about) is the only way I know of getting the wrinkles out.
The GOAL to keep in mind is for the audience to one day feel, 'Hey, they sound pretty good! And, it looks so easy.'
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-10-07 22:01
I have sometimes played in shows where the tuning to my ears has been less than desirable, including when I am not playing. Sometimes I go out into the auditorium and listen. The distance seems to blend the sounds and amazingly totally disguize the smaller intonation discrepancies.
So perhaps you could bathe a little in this reassurance. Ron B is right. If we focus on these things too much we will never enjoy plying.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: d dow
Date: 2002-10-08 01:37
This is quite an interesting post and strangely enough I do think there are pepole out there with incredibly sensitive hearing. In terms of pitch then this can get to a point where it is quite a distraction and makes the player quite uncomfortable.
It is dangerous to base too much of our thinking on just tuning, but there are players who are perfectly in tune and yet have such horrible sound that it makes me shutter. I will not go into to too much detail, but sometimes we also hear air or even harmonics in undeveloped tone of other players that even if they are in tune it can be quite an obmoxious treat...
that being said there are the dangers of also not being able to live and just enjoy playing in the situation we are in. In other words, no one wants to be around a player who is unfairly critical other who are trying the best they can.
A few words of advice i have(as an orchestral clarinet player) is that you should always take care of your ears. I have lost enough hearing in my right ear as to be considered serious. This is directly related to playing in a large ensemble which plays loud music. If loud or even fairly loud music bothers your ears this is a message saying to you that you should protect your ears.
I can also say i play in a community band for fun and I take off my classically trained ears there. They also play too loud and are off pitch. If you have a developed ear than this can be quite a challenge...its like loving chocolate but being forced to drown in it......
As for advice, well the best thing is to do is put on some ear plugs and then all you can hear is your own playing....or you can just enjoy making music plain and simple.
Regards
DD
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kes
Date: 2002-10-08 03:26
Isn't there something related to this called "Perfect Pitch"? Isn't that where you can tell exactly which note a note is, and if it's off or not?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BeckyC
Date: 2002-10-08 14:54
Thanks for the info and advice, guys.
I have to say that this has NOT been happening for long, maybe just the last few months. But it has just gotten worse. (Are you born with perfect pitch? I don't think I have that)
I know now that if it really sounded that bad the Orchestra director would have said something himself. Oh.....and I don't criticize the other players EVER. (But occastionally, I will point out the wrong note that one has missed several times, maybe!! haha)
I do realize now that I DO need to relaxe more, and I will. I love to play. I can play for several hours by myself and not realize how long I have been playing. I really want to be able to enjoy it with the group like I used to. (It would help if the other clarinet would at least act like she likes it too.......That's another topic, I guess!)
Thanks,
Becky
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Robert
Date: 2002-10-08 16:03
I once asked an oboe player in the Berlin Philharmonic how the tuning was in their woodwind group. He said "more out-of-tune than in-tune"! (seriously!!!) I guess it's almost impossible to play perfectly in tune all the time. I also agree with what Gordon said "distance seems to blend the sounds". I think the key is balance- pay attention to intonation, but don't obsess about it so much that other aspects of the music suffer.
Becky, perhaps you should specifically try focusing on other aspects of the music for a while- phrasing, tone quality, character, articulation, dynamics, blend, balance, etc. There's plenty to take your mind off tuning!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken
Date: 2002-10-09 21:50
Robert wrote: "perhaps you should specifically try focusing on other aspects of the music for a while- phrasing, tone quality, character, articulation, dynamics, blend, balance, etc. There's plenty to take your mind off tuning!"
--Inspired! Couldn't have said it better myself. There comes a point in ensemble work (even when following the melody) you have to stand your ground and not constantly yield, become a contortionist and force blend with everyone around you to the degree you begin to lose your own musicality, concentration and focus on what you're doing.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-10-10 10:38
'In tune' is a rather hazy concept most of the time.
The clarinet normally has no vibrato, while the string players in an orchestra are all doing a vibrato which is entirely pitch based, so the clarinet and any particular 'string' is out of tune almost all the time. Add to this the fact that the full, 'warm' string sound that only a group of strings can achieve is probably based on many notes being out of tune with each other, on account of that vibrato. The 'Mantovani' sound, for any given note, is probably a conglomeration of notes that cover at least 1/4 semitone.
If we are used to hearing pianos then we are used to accepting as correct, octaves which are 'stretched' as part of the compromise package necessary on pianos. They are out of tune but we learn to accept them as right.
Even taking two clarinet players playing in harmony... Player No. 1 plays a note that quite likely has as an overtone, slightly out of tune with the fundamental, which is the note that player No. 2 is playing. Player No. 2 may well sound more in-tune if he plays out-of-tune, in-tune with that out-of-tune-overtone, to eliminate (or reduce the speed of) the most conspicuous beat frequencies.
Also, slight nuances of tuning may well be used to add 'meaning' to music, take for example the sparkle of the slightly sharp coloratura.
So, what is 'in tune'! It is always a best compromise based on what our ears like best, and this may well vary for different people.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-10-10 12:10
Gordon (NZ) wrote:
>
> Even taking two clarinet players playing in harmony... Player
> No. 1 plays a note that quite likely has as an overtone,
> slightly out of tune with the fundamental, which is the note
> that player No. 2 is playing. Player No. 2 may well sound more
> in-tune if he plays out-of-tune, in-tune with that
> out-of-tune-overtone, to eliminate (or reduce the speed of) the
> most conspicuous beat frequencies.
Actually it is quite impossible to create an out-of-tune overtone on the clarinet - all the overtones are exact integral multiples. However, the overtones of the clarinet could be out of tune with some different instrument (especially instruments using strings) where the overtones <b>are</b> generally out of tune (due to stiffness and mass compromises of the strings) to a greater or lesser degree. To change the pitch of the overtones on a clarinet one must change the fundamental pitch - but sometimes that is much less objectionable.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-10-10 21:25
I didn't know that, Mark. So are there no end effects of the air column, related to bore diameter etc, that affect frewquency of harmonics differently, as in piano for example.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-10-11 01:31
Gordon (NZ) wrote:
>
> I didn't know that, Mark. So are there no end effects of
> the air column, related to bore diameter etc, that affect
> frewquency of harmonics differently, as in piano for
> example.
No. Piano strings have added mass to lower their frequency/tension/length ratios, thus the imperfect harmonics.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
