 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Clair
Date: 2002-10-02 21:09
Hi everyone! I've got a situation here I was hoping I could get some help with. I have been accepted into my local high school wind ensemble, which is an honor for a freshman. However, just because I'm a freshman, I have to start with a chair at the very bottom of the clarinet section and challenge my way up if I want to, and if I can. The thing is, I have found that I am capable of moving up a good number of chairs in the section, so I have proceeded to do so. So far I've moved up three chairs in the past week or two. HOWEVER, every time I move up a chair, it seems the upperclassmen and the other people in the section hate me more and more. They seem to think I am conceited, mean, ruthless, and just plain a horrible person for challenging up chairs. This really hurts. I am challenging because I want to be the best I can be and try to challenge myself to do better! I just want to try and live up to my potential and the standards my teachers and I have set for me! But then, I don't want people to hate me as they do for challenging! This is so hard, and I still want to move up several more chairs but I don't want to be utterly loathed by the entire clarinet section! HELP! What should I do??
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Author: Jon Hill
Date: 2002-10-02 21:39
Clair:
I can tell you one thing for sure. If the other people in the
section hate you,it's not because of your challenges, it's due
to other things that you are doing that must annoy them. You need
to find out what these things are and if it's important to you,
learn how to modify your behavior.
When I was in high school band, nobody was loathed simply for
winning challenges. They were loathed for being obnoxious about
it.
Hope this helps.
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Author: Clair
Date: 2002-10-02 21:43
Hi jon! Thanks for the constructive critcism! But, I try really hard not to make a big deal out of winning challenges...I never brag or anything, and I always try to make sure that there are no hard feelings between me and the person I'm challenging... so what else could I be doing? Thanks!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-10-02 23:33
Clair wrote:
>
> Hi jon! Thanks for the constructive critcism! But, I try
> really hard not to make a big deal out of winning
> challenges...I never brag or anything, and I always try to make
> sure that there are no hard feelings between me and the person
> I'm challenging... so what else could I be doing? Thanks!
Take it easy. You've got plenty of time. Technical accomplishment is but one of the menay things you need to learn before you advance in a group of your peers. Experience <b>does</b> count, especially in this kind of group setting.
Sit back, do your stuff, and see what develops over the next few months. It's not worth the enmity that can develop when others see you as pushy, whether or not you actually are.
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Author: LynnB
Date: 2002-10-02 23:46
Hi Clair,
I was in the exact same situation; last chair but knew I belonged further up the food chain. I went ahead and challenged each person until I got to 2nd chair. I knew some people would be pissed no matter what my attitude was; however, I tried to be as polite as I could. My playing was much more important to me than personally fitting in. In the long run, everything worked out. Once I was in the 1st section for a while and playing the part, I won the respect of the others. And all the challenge experience helped me later with auditions. No hard feelings after awhile. It helped me to pick my priorities and stick to it. I don't want to live my life 'just to get along with others' within reason of course.
Good luck.
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Author: Karel
Date: 2002-10-03 01:47
I wonder if playing in an ensemble is about more than "playing to YOUR full potential", and requires an ability to be in harmony with the whole body of people there, and not just musically with your clarinet. I can understand the dislike and even antagonism generated by a newcomer who is trying to displace established members in a matter of weeks, without waiting to fit in first. Try seeing the situation from the point of view of the people you are challenging, and mellow down a little. When you reach first chair, would you really like a total newcomer who is trying to displace you within a couple of weeks of joining?? "No man is an island" and all that...
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-10-03 02:35
> and I always try to make sure that there are no hard feelings > between me and the person I'm challenging...
You may be making too big a deal out of this part of the process. Treat the challenge as business, and leave the "work" in the band room. In other words, don't talk about the challenge at all TO ANYONE. Remain friendly to the other clarinetists; just talk about other stuff like classes and the band director's funny pants (or walk or whatever).
I am notorious for not being able to explain this sort of stuff clearly, so if anyone's confused I'll try to do better! 
Katrina
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2002-10-03 08:05
I'm an aussie and we're not huge on wind bands, so what's "challening"? I assume it's just when you want the next chair up, the director re-auditions you or something? I'm in a band where we're allowed to do that. I sit next to the concertmaster, and have been thinking about plying for his seat for ages, but decided that I enjoy the social aspect of the band as well, and next year I'll go for the seat, because that way, it'll be fair and he'll never know how badly I wanted that seat!
Maybe you should just wait until the next audition comes up and jump several seats at once? Then again, have your killer attitude, I know it got me pretty far. But further down the track you'll trip up somewhere, it happened to me.
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Author: Stefano
Date: 2002-10-03 12:57
Do you really think that you will become a better player if you end up third chair in two weeks instead than 6 months?
What is your goal in being a member of the ensemble?
Assuming you get to be first chair, what's next? Would you still enjoy playing in the ensemble?
You can determine what to do depending on how you answer to these questions.
You are a freshmen, and still have a lot of time to experience what is like to play in a wind ensemble as last chair, up to first.
If I were you, I would slow down and set a limit to the challanges. Indeed, you should consider this experience not like a race, but rather like a journey: if you plan to visit Europe from south to north... would you rush to spend most of your time in iceland, or rather spend enough time in each place?
Philosophically yours
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Author: Keil
Date: 2002-10-03 14:51
It's high school, you can't expect to get into a top ensemble your freshmen year and start taking names already. The best part about going to a new level in education is going to a new level in your playing. Enjoy being less than the best and learn from it. If you're always the best then what fun would it be to play and get better?
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-10-03 15:57
In an ideal world, which this one is not (you may have noticed), personal politics would have nothing to do with the functioning of any organization. But as things are, it is a primary feature of the actual functioning of any hierarchy. This means in your situation, unfortunately, that just because you *can* move up in an organization, it isn't a sure thing that you *should*. Your playing can be just as good in last chair third as it would in the principal position. Moving up will not make you a better player, it will only provide you with greater recognition. As long as *you* know you deserve to move up, take that as your own satisfaction. Move up when things are more politically appropriate. You will be able to tell when that happens. And remember that the willingness to accept a delayed reward is a true indication of maturity.
Regards,
John
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Author: Clair
Date: 2002-10-03 17:11
Wow, wise words indeed--thanks. Yet, it seems there is absolutely no respect for any one in our ensemble who is not within the top five...I hate the way people always assume those who play in the second and third clarinet sections are incompetent clarinet players--that's partly why it seems so important to move upwards. However, I'll take what's been said here to heart...maybe I can find other ways to challenge myself, though it is hard to resist trying for the recognition that one gets from being a high chair, especially as a freshman. It really is too bad this isn't an ideal world...
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Author: Eileen
Date: 2002-10-03 17:40
In any organization, anywhere, you will have to contend with the politics. I call it in my office "The Cult of Mediocrity." People will resent you for showing up their own shoddy performance. On the other hand, misplaced ambition which focuses more on status than on substantive achievement is ultimately egotistical and self-destructive. As someone pointed up, how would you feel if someone quickly challenged your high seat and deposed you? Another reason to take note of the feelings of your co-workers is to avoid back-stabbing. A resentful 2nd player has many ways to sabotage an overbearing 1st player.
I would concur in the suggestion that you bide your time and choose your challenges strategically. Wait until you are certain that you can successfully challenge from the 3rd part to the 2nd and then from the 2nd to the 1st. This will result in meaningful advancement rather than the status-driven satisfaction of outranking someone else on the same part. If you make a big leap after waiting a decent period of time, your section members will recognize that you were classified wrong to begin with and will not perceive it as being as personal or petty as a series of one-by-one challenges.
Congratulations on making the wind ensemble! When I was in school, that was my favorite musical experience.
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Author: Jessica
Date: 2002-10-03 18:32
I can relate to you, Clair. My school has two bands -- symphonic & concert, realistically, A & B band, and they were very distinct in their ability. And even though I could play better than a greater portion of the clarinetists in the A band, I was stuck in what we called (not so affectionately) the "sucky" band. I tried not to be too bitter about it, but it was sort of depressing--because the people in symphonic band truly thought you sucked if you were in concert band.
I got the last laugh though. I saw some of our best musicians from symphonic band when I went to music camp that summer--I sat first chair in the clarinet section, and believe it or not, they actually had the nerve to say, "Wow, you're really good. We always thought you sucked since you were in concert band." I wasn't snooty about it though, and as much as I wanted to say something mean, I said thank you, because I knew they meant it as a compliment.
On the other side of things, I can tell you about the girl who used to be principal clarinetist (she's graduated now). For the record, I'd like to say I love her to death--she was always really nice to me, and really helped me cope with being in the "sucky" band. However, a lot of people felt she didn't earn her spot, mainly because she was the band director's favorite person and sat first chair since sophomore year--but even she wasn't first chair freshman year.
I sit principal in our section now. And I NEVER look down on the people in concert band. I guess sometimes you need to sit last chair to really appreciate it when you get to sit first--even if you think you deserved to be there all along.
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Author: Colin Farquhar
Date: 2002-10-03 19:45
Wow-Talk about an Eye Opener... I've never been in an educational ensemble where people were actually worried about what parts they play! I believe that it's because I've never been at a school where the concept of sections/leaders/chairs was firmly enforced.
Colin Farquhar
(I know this isn't really answering the question, but I couldn't resist a comment)
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Author: Jon Hill
Date: 2002-10-03 20:18
>Hi jon! Thanks for the constructive critcism! But, I try really >hard not to make a big deal out of winning challenges...I never >brag or anything, and I always try to make sure that there are no >hard feelings between me and the person I'm challenging... so what >else could I be doing? Thanks!
If that's really true then you should work on not letting what
the others think affect you. You will learn, as we all do,
that you can never please everyone. What really matters in the
end is how you feel about your own playing and about yourself, not
what others think about you. The visible recognition that a 1st chair seat brings only affects how you appear in the eyes of others - in the end it should not affect how you appear in your
own eyes.
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Author: Jo
Date: 2002-10-04 03:38
I have noticed that clarinet, more than any other instrument, relys heavily on "the pecking order". When that pecking order is disrupted by someone new, it just takes a while for it to be reestablished. Give it time. ONce they figure out you deserve to be in the seat you end up in, they will sit back and accept it. I have been on both the top and bottom of the order, and it's just a matter of everyone finding their place.
Clarinettists are a funny bunch. We are fiercely competitive, but yet still friendly.... a generalization, yes, but oddly true...
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Author: Karel
Date: 2002-10-04 03:47
Jon, the problem seems to be that Clair, as a freshman, is plesing almost nobody in her musical circle; otherwise she would not be so acutely aware of it. The advice that she should do as she wants because she cannot please everybody will not help her integrate satisfactorily into her ensemble. It would be a pity to see her set herself up for an ongoing antagonistic situation through inability to blend in. Although if she is really talented, perhaps she should go the "individualistic" way, get private lessons and progress at her own pace. Not everyone is blessed with a herd instinct, and those of us without it do better staying out of the herd.
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Author: Monica
Date: 2002-10-04 23:09
ok, this is what you do!Go find some other virtuosos' who will accept you for your hard work and dedication. the other students are mean towards you because "your a freshman!" They see you as a threat. No one likes to see their chair lost to a freshman. i know because i'm in highschool and i've seen how the freshman have been treated and the way i was treated when i was a freshamn. Just wait it out till your a sophomore.Everyone will think ur freakin awesome then!Just don't forget what happened and take a freshamn under your protective wing.I took a couple and i've made sure that no one messes with them. DON"T YOU DARE LET THEM RUIN YOUR SPIRIT!i saw a boy who played "beauty" on the flute and he quit because the guys teased him about it.That was truely sad.Besides do you want to be good or not?If so then it's not a matter of them getting over you, but you getting over them. Like i said,go find some people who accept you.Hey, their might be an adult community band you can play with.Wouldn't that be cool!:)let me know whatcha think.
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