 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jez
Date: 2002-10-02 13:40
We're thinking of going ahead with the idea of using German-system clarinets for the 'major' German repertoire as is the habit in some U.S. orchestras discussed previously. I'm looking forward to this very keenly, as it will inject a new source of interest into some music which has become, perhaps, a little too familiar with repeated performances over many years.
We've got a pair of Wurlitzers, reputedly made to A 440, to play around with and it's interesting to note some of the differences in the system. Some passages work out much easier. The Oehler system is clearly easier in sharp keys and the Boehm in flats.
A few questions arise;
Why do some holes have a smaller hole adjacent which is not independent in any way? Couldn't the main hole just be bigger or differently placed?
The speaker tube seems shorter. Is this anything to do with it's upward position (surely not)
Wurlitzer's own mouthpieces appear to be made of plastic rather than ebonite and don't seem to exude the quality evident in the rest of the instrument
Thoughts?
jez
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-10-02 13:45
jez..see recent post on Bakelite. What is your understanding as to what Ebonite is?
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-10-02 14:00
recent ad:
Clarinet B flat Specs
High Grade Ebonite Plastic
17 Nickel Plated Keys
Hardshell Case
3 yr. Manufacturer's Warranty
This new Clarinet has been built for longlife play and ease of use. The high quality plastic used in production makes it safe for any student.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-10-02 14:31
jez -
I suppose the attached vents are to make the finger hole smaller and easier to cover. Compared to the Boehm design, the Oehler instruments have a big stretch between the right index and middle fingers, and anything to lower the right index finger hole is welcome. I've read that Wurlitzer made many acoustical experiments, so perhaps the extra vent has an acoustical purpose also.
Native Oehler system players, such as Karl Lester, Sabine Meyer and Dieter Kloecker, have no trouble getting multiple tone colors, but I've always found even the top Oehler instruments (Wurlitzer, Hammerschmidt, Yamaha) inflexible. Other Boehm players seem to have the same problem. I know Larry Combs slightly, and at the Columbus ClarinetFest, I said to him that I had always felt that I could control things on my Buffet, but that on a Wurlitzer, it was a feeling of "you blow here and it comes out there." Larry said he felt the same on the Chicago Symphony's Wurlitzers, but that it was worth it to get the particular Germanic sound necessary for, say, Mahler.
Perhaps Greg Smith could give his impressions.
Ken Shaw
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-10-02 15:18
jez, your question re the small holes is an interesting one which I never carefully considered. I just looked at my Richard Keilwerth 22/6 German instrument and discovered four of the items you mention: one each associated with L1, L2, R1, and R2. The one operated by R2 (and R2 only) is quite curious, as it is located below the R3 hole and is activated by a complex mechanism. Examinination of the main finger-hole positions reveals that they are located in a regular fashion for each hand. Without the "accessory" holes the spread between L1/L2 and R1/R2 would have to be expanded to a perhaps uncomfortable degree. Alternatively, perhaps the holes could be enlarged or drilled at angles, but this could disturb the tone differences between registers.
It is interesting to me that the finger-hole positions are quite different from those on a Boehm instrument, the right-hand holes especially so. Comparison of my Keilwerth with an assortment of Boehm Clarinets reveals that the Keilwerth's R3 hole is about 1.5 cm (0.6") more distant from the R1 hole than it is on a Boehm instrument. Also relative to R1, the key for F/C is a full inch (2.5 cm) lower than the corresponding Boehm key. This stretches my right hand rather much when playing F or C. I have considered moving the thumb rest (upward) to compensate partly for this but have not done so.
On my 22/6 Clarinet, the speaker hole is lower than that on the average Boehm, so I have nothing to compare with your Wurlitzer. And it is a bit surprising to me that a firm with the reputation of Wurlitzer would deliver an instrument with a "toy" mouthpiece, but I suppose that's been a rather common practice with most manufacturers for a long time.
I was unaware of the striking difference in tone quality between Boehm and German Clarinets before buying this Keilwerth instrument. The Keilwerth seems to play with a richness of higher overtones, making the instrument sound brighter. I think of it as a "sweet" sound.
I applaud your orchestra for its willingness to try something uncommon which offers a different sound. Please keep us posted on the results.
Regards,
John
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Author: Robert
Date: 2002-10-02 16:54
Jez,
Good luck trying out the Wurlitzers. I've tried a bit, but find it very hard work. I do find their C clarinet very good though. It has a seperate C-clarient mouthpiece and reeds, and good intonation.
Many German players nowadays use mouthpieces by Heinz Viotto (Zinner blanks), or Wurlitzer mouthpieces with Viotto refacing. N1 and G3 models are very popular.
I met Karl Leister last year. He told me that Barenboim said that he couldn't really hear the difference in Chicago when they played Boehm or German system! I think that it feels a lot different to us, but the difference in sound is not so apparent after a while. We basically always try to produce the sound that we have in our heads. If you feel that you can do that with Wurlitzers, then go ahead! In any case, you'll definitely have a lot of fun.
Best of luck,
Robert
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Author: Arnold the basset hornist
Date: 2002-10-02 17:23
Hello (from holiday),
I do not know a key on my oehler without a function. If you remember the key layout picture at klarinette24.de (<a href=http://www.klarinette24.de/klappen.html>http://www.klarinette24.de/klappen.html</a>, I'll now just explain a few ones function:
The one on "oberer Gabel - B - Ring" is to keep C6 [RT -2- | ---] in pitch.
The one on "untere Gabel - B - Brille" is to keep Bb5 [RT 1-3 | ---] in pitch.
The one on "oberer Oehler-Ring" is the altissimo-E6-correction - closed by the right hand Eb/Ab-Key [RT -23 | --- G#].
The "Oehler Griffplatte" does not cover any hole directly at all. The hole is moved to the side ("obere F-Resonanz-Klappe") and slightly downward. This plate is only there to keep the positions of the three fingers of the right hand in equal distances. The "untere F-Resonanz-Klappe", also closed by this plate, is on a vent hole to keep the sound of Bb3/F5 [(R)T 123 | 1-3] pleasant.
And finally, the "H-Cis-Triller" should be know for it's B4/C#5-Trill.
The lever from the register key to "oberer Gabel-B-Ring" is used for the C#6 [RT --- | ---] of the B5/C#6-Trill.
By the way, at "Schwenk und Seggelke" you can find a picture with a vent hole directly attached to the right hand ring finger ring.
With greetings from my holiday vacation (and without any english dictionary nearby!) from Angra, Terceira,
Arnold (the basset hornist)
P.S. If you want to meet me (until Sat.) - I'm not going to check this board again until I leave - you'll have to find me at beakfast approx. 30 meters avay from the bay of Angra.
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Author: Baz
Date: 2002-10-02 22:36
I bought an Oehler system clarinet about six weeks ago, I play both Boehm and Albert-simple system with no problems but the Oehler now makes a nice upright ornament on my computer shelf, I am not trying to put it down because they are still played in Germanic countrys, and top makers still supply them (Orsi and Yamaha) but personaly I found the lower joint very difficult to play, the small finger keys were too far apart for comfort, of course the obvious answer is to get one in your hands and try it before committing yourself.
I was lucky, I found a good one one cheap.
It might work for somebody else????
Baz
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-10-03 05:54
jez - just listen to the gorgeous sound of the Weiner Philharmonikers clarinet department and you should need no further convincing that these clarinets are capable of an extraordinary tonal range.
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Author: d dow
Date: 2002-10-03 13:39
The Oehler clarinet is a masterpiece in quality and workmanship. they tend to play much better with a hand faced mouthpiece and Vandoren now make German and Austrian mouthpieces to go with these horns. From what i have heard these are very good and sound better than the stock mouthpuieces that come with them. I also know that the throat register up close when playing is distincly different and speaks diffferently. I think that also of players can easily mimic the sound of the Oehler with the right set up on the Boehmn.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-10-03 13:48
There's a wonderful Szell/Cleveland CD of "bleeding chunks" of Wagner available for next to nothing on Sony Classics. Lots of big solos by Marcellus and Leon Zetzer, the wonderful Cleveland bass clarinetist. You would swear that Marcellus is playing a German instrument, he gets the tone color so perfectly.
Ken Shaw
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Author: d dow
Date: 2002-10-05 01:07
Dear Ken: I have the recording you mention as well as an adjacent one of the Tannhauser (INCLUDES recording of the Flying Dutchman). I have always thought Marcellus had an amazing tone and it has that Austrian ring on it...
the Cleveland CDs I like are and own
Beethoven Symphonies
Brahmns Cycle
Mozart Concerto
Bruckner 3
Kodaly and Prokofiev Harry Janos and Lietenant Kije
Hindemeith and Walton
Richard Struass TONE POEMS(ALL OF) Fanatastic!! FINEST OF All of the Szell records...
Best regards
D Dow
ps. Szell did not get to do Also Sprach Zarathustra, CBC went with Ormandy. I would really like to find a recording of Szell doing that one!!!
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