 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: plays5horns
Date: 2002-09-16 23:55
A sax student of mine doubling on clarinet is about to trade her Buffet E-11 in for a Buffet R-13. Any ideas of what she should pay for the difference? She's going to Sam Ash Music here in the Cleveland, Ohio area.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2002-09-17 00:06
What's the prize if we guess correctly? After all it IS a R-13!
Bob A
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2002-09-17 01:06
She's about to get a lesson in retail... the money is in used gear, not the new stuff....
She'll be presented with an inflated price for the R13, probably over $2000 and offered $500 (or less) for her E-11.
That way, she'll pay too much for the horn in the first place, AND they'll have a clean second hand clarinet to resell near $1000.
Better to sell the clarinet at auction, and shop one of the Sneezers for a decent horn. Buying a new clarinet is an expensive proposition, especially this way.
Might want to ask one of the Woodwind.org sponsors what they charge for an R13, at least for reference.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-09-17 01:32
SB,
A used E-11 for $1000? The <b>NEW</b> ones sell for $700 cash money in Houston. It's hard to get $500 for a used one in this area.
jbutler
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-09-17 03:12
I'm assuming we're talking about a brand new R13 with full warranty here. If it's a used one, then the analysis that follows will have to be redone. If I were her, I would attempt to decouple the purchase price of the R13 from the trade-in by approaching the transaction in two steps:
1. Get a price quote from Sam Ash for an R13 with no trade-in, then
2. Ask them what they will give her for E11 if she buys the R13 there.
Right now, the street price of a new R13 is around $1,630 plus shipping. She might want to use that as a benchmark. If Ash wants a significantly greater amount, she might consider another source such as the Woodwind and Brasswind. (BTW, if Ash is out of line, she's only 80 miles from Marks' Music in Hermitage, Pa., you might want to get a quote from them. They are a good shop and it wouldn't be a bad drive to try instruments out there. My guess is that they will be within $100 or so of the street price I quoted.)
Establishing a value for the E11 is a little trickier. On eBay, recent sales for used E11's have ranged from $200 to $450, perhaps depending on condition. If hers is in decent shape and Ash offers around $300 (along with a sale price of $1,600 - $1,700, the extra $100 or so she might be able to get if she sells it herself might not be worth the aggravation. (A brand new E11 can be had for around $575 plus shipping.)
So, if you put the two together, she should probably expect to be out at least $1,350 to do what she wants to do.
That's my answer to your question. Actually, however, if I were in her shoes, unless I had alot of money burning a hole in my pocket, I probably wouldn't be doing either of the things she is planning.
I don't know how much use her clarinet actually gets but, if she's a typical doubler, in her shoes, I would think long and hard about whether I really needed a new R13. The E11 might be sufficient. Living with it saves at least $1,350. If I decided I really wanted an R13, I would start looking (leisurely) for a good used one. On eBay, an older one can be had in decent condition for $800 or less. A newer one (5-10 years old in good condition) can be had for $1,100 - $1,200. (Older professional Leblanc, Selmer and Yamaha instruments go for even less.) If she is careful about the one she buys, particularly on the newer ones, fix-up costs may be negligible.
The other thing I would consider is whether I really wanted to sell the E11. Unless she needs the money (in which case, maybe she shouldn't be thinking about purchasing an R13), she might want to consider hanging on to it. She can probably sell it anytime for around $300. On the other hand, it's a good back-up and might be useful if she winds up travelling to places where she doesn't want to risk her R13.
Best regards,
jnk
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Vytas
Date: 2002-09-17 03:12
Most likely scenario will be like this: she will be offered $200-$250 for E11. SamAsh usually sells R13 for around $1800 this time of the year and they don't inflate prices ever. Actually manager can lower the price but no way anyone can inflate/change the actual selling price......V
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Vytas
Date: 2002-09-17 03:26
BTW. If you have a legitimate price quote from the other dealer SamAsh will always beat that price...V
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jim E.
Date: 2002-09-17 04:31
Of course this is why Woodwind/Brasswind, Muncy, IMS etc. don't put prices in their catalogs or on their web sites. If you can get them to email the price, that should be enough to take to another dealer, but a phone quote does you no good. (Sometimes on Woodwind/ Brasswind's web site you can get an "unlisted" price by putting the item in your cart.)
I've never dealt with Ash as I could not ever get an employee in either of two Philly area stores to put any time into waiting on me and answering questions.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jenna
Date: 2002-09-17 05:18
Prowinds is currently selling the nickle plated R13 for $1,569 and $1,769 for silver plate with $10 shipping, usually. Just for another reference.
Friend of mine bought an E11 from them recently for $550 total... very happy with the horn itself, the dealings of the store itself, etc. Now he buys most of his accessories through them, for all of his instruments.
The web address is (and we will see if I can do this correctly) http://www.prowinds.com. I think they are based in Indiana if you actually wanted to visit there.
Jenna
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob
Date: 2002-09-17 13:20
All the above are excellent and realistic analyses and suggestions as far as I am concerned. Personally I play both E-11 and R-13 Buffets and question the ideal of getting rid of the E-11 in the first place...and buying conventional retail in the second place.
If she is not familiar with eBay I'd suggest she utilize the Classifieds on this Board where, in my opinion, she will get a much better deal on both ends.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Meri
Date: 2002-09-17 21:12
What about selling the E-11 privately, and then purchasing the R-13? She will likely get more money for it than if she trades it in. If she is willing to consider purchasing a used R-13, as well as selling the E-11 privately, the price difference will probably be reduced significantly. In the very least, sell the E-11 privately.
Meri
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2002-09-17 22:20
"Why even consider an R-13, said He" Dodging brickbats and the charging R-13 Mafia as he runs quickly back into his cave.
Bob A
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2002-09-17 22:37
"R-13 Mafia"
Shame on you.
No such thing.
It's just a bunch of guys in the imported cork grease business...GBK(who bought his first "full case" in 1966)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-09-17 22:42
Bob Arney wrote:
>
> "Why even consider an R-13, said He" Dodging brickbats
> and the charging R-13 Mafia as he runs quickly back into his
> cave.
But wait. Why not consider an R13. Not considering one is just as bad as not considering anything else.
Prejudice is prejudice.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2002-09-18 18:22
It's only peer pressure if your peers are wrong.
Remember: the anagram of "peer pressure" is "see uppers err"...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2002-09-19 11:59
GBK:
I disagree. Peer pressure is peer pressure, no matter the outcome.
MOO,
Matt
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: brenda siewert
Date: 2002-09-19 20:39
If your student could sell her E-11 herself, either through your help on the Sneezy board, eBay or want ads in the newspaper, she would be money ahead every time. Take it from someone who's bought and sold hundreds of new and used clarinets. One of the above was right on when he said she will be offered an inflated price for the R-13 and about $500.00 for the E-11. But, I'll edit that comment a bit by saying she'll more likely be offered about $250.00 for her E-11 from any retail dealer. In effect, she'll pay about the same amount as if she went in and said, "What's the best discount you can offer me on an R-13? Can you match someone's price like Woodwind and Brasswind, or Brook Mays Music?" Most dealers now have matching policies--like Brook Mays, for instance. They'll match the advertised online price.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob
Date: 2002-09-19 22:42
Personally I think the E11 is a very good horn and would encourage your student to keep it until she can afford the R13 without having to get rid of the E11 to make the switch. I would think that the E11 will hold its resale value until that time...and based on my personal experience it would sell for more than $250 today.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
