 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Keil
Date: 2002-09-15 22:25
What is your method? Anyone have a method that works really well? I'm particularly interested in the methods of the professionals on our board but all tips and methods are welcomed! :-)
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Author: HAT
Date: 2002-09-15 23:40
There is no cure.
Some try alcohol, but I find no matter how much I drink, my reeds still suck.
Hattner
www.northbranchrecords.com
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Author: David L Morris
Date: 2002-09-16 00:20
Keil
I am no professional but most of my reeds spend at least a year in my desk drader befor i even touch them, most of the reeds i get today are not aged at all (the cane is still to green).
Dave
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-09-16 00:39
The recent run of V-12's have many reeds in the box with the lack of fibers in the heart going to the tip.
Curing them for a week, a month, a year, or a decade will not change the fact that the cane quality has seriously declined.
The world wide demand for V-12's has also led to a hastening of the aging process.
Add up the facts: 1 + 1 + 1 = 0 ...GBK (whose actual minor in college was math)
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Author: Clairgirl
Date: 2002-09-16 06:03
GBK, do you find this to be true for all strengths of V12's? I was curious because I switch back and forth from 4's to 4 1/2's and I find the 4 1/2's play remarkably better for reasons unknown to me.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-09-16 08:04
Vandoren is presently having a difficult time acquiring enough of the larger tubed cane used for the thicker blank V-12's (and saxophone reeds). Thus, because of demand, they are now using more of the sub par cane which normally would not have made their grade. This is apparent by the lack of maturity of the cane, as well as the sparcity of fibers in the heart of the reed. With less of a stockpile to draw upon, more inferior cane is now being processed.
I have seen some boxes of V-12's where the cane is reminiscent of "the good old days". It is still possible to get a decent box of Vandoren's where they apparently had a good run of cane. But, the odds of that happening are becoming higher and higher. At premium prices, this becomes a prohibitively expensive gamble.
Combining the above factors with their redesigned tip profile, and clarinetists have been thrown into a state of confusion.
Until Vandoren is able to balance their demand with enough high quality cane (an issue they are feverishly working on by acquiring more local land and planting more fields) clarinetists who were previously wedded to Vandoren may do well to explore other venues...GBK
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2002-09-16 13:27
Like a fine wine that improves with aging - reed cane "seems" to improve with some aging (note - I have not seen any scientific evidence in a controlled experiment to document this phenomenon). I feel that the aging process probably stabilizes the fibers and bundles of the cane structure which become more fixed in spatial alignment as water is lost and new chemical bonding patterns develop. Then, when the reed is cut, aged cane will hold it's configuration within the new shape to a stronger degree than a reed that has not been as thorughly aged. As GBK points out it is impossible to make poor cane into a good reed no matter how long it ages. Texture, density of fibers, bundles, and tubule number are prime factors which contribute to the vibrational characteristics of the finished reed. Number, density, and arrangement of tubules will determine the subsequent hydration characteristics of the reed - when you wet it.
The reed companies must strike a balance between reed cane "quality", reed stabilization though proper drying and aging, and the demands to get the reeds out the door for sale. The consumer is the ultimate arbitor of what level of reed performance - due to all the subjective nuiances of the "art" - they are willing to accept.
The Doctor
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Author: William
Date: 2002-09-16 16:22
For the intial audition, I soak the reed (V12s) in water, rub the vamp and back to seal it and play it a short while. I then rub the vamp and back again, and let it dry on glass for a couple of days. After that, I only soak the reed with my saliva, play it for increasingly longer periods until ready for performance and rub it down (seal the vamp and back) before and after playing or balancing. It usually takes a week or two to let a reed realize its full playing potential. Hope this helps a bit--good luck.
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2002-09-17 01:26
William, when you say you rub the vamp and back, what do you rub it with? And as for letting it dry on glass for a couple of days, does it dry flat side down? And I don't understand - it only takes a short time for it to dry, why a couple of days?
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-09-17 14:07
Doc's comments got me to thinking about "vintage" violins....where the popular explanation seems to be that the varnish is the key. What I'm inferring is that aging reeds(even in the glove box!) probably has some good effect on stabilizing their playing properties...
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Author: William
Date: 2002-09-17 14:51
I seal the vamps and backs of reeds by rubbing them with my forefinger. It will become rather "grungy" appearing after a while, but that is ok--it simply means that oil from your skin is accumulating and sealing the reeds surface and protecting it from absorbing too much excess moisture while being used. After the initial audition and after sealing vamp and back. some residual moisture and other chemicals from the water remain inside the cane and react with the fibers. There is some breakdown and mineral crustification that goes on during the drying that helps build the reeds "spine" that gives the reed character and endurance for longer periods of performance. I like to give this process about two days, initially, and then shorter periods after that until I feel the reed has become "all it can be."
Another hint: this "curing" process will often make the reed weaker, but in a good way. So, I start with reeds that are perhaps onehalf to one strength harder than I really like to play on. That lets the reed weaken (cure) in general but retain its core (or heart) strength for resonance and focus of sound from soft to loud. Reeds that are initially too soft may be clipped, but I generally find that remedy is ultimately futile. My general perspective--you cannot add to a reed that is too soft, but you can always take away from a reed that is too hard.
There is also the balancing process that comes into play here, but a search of other postings should give information about that. All I meant to address here were your concerns about the curing process. Hope I've helped clear your path through the dense forest of Arundo Donax for your (neverending) search for the Perfect Reed.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2002-09-17 19:29
William - I beg to differ with your explanation of the change in the reed.
"After the initial audition and after sealing vamp and back. some residual moisture and other chemicals from the water remain inside the cane and react with the fibers. There is some breakdown and mineral crustification that goes on during the drying that helps build the reeds "spine" that gives the reed character and endurance for longer periods of performance."
You may indeed see a difference in the behavior of the reed but it is not due to reaction of water impurities or mineral crustification. I do not want to be "nit-picky" about the chemistry but the difference that you note is probably due to rearrangements of the chemical bonding and interaction of the polysaccharide chains surrounding the cellulose bundles. This is pretty complex stuff so please just give us your observations on the character of the change, your treatment of the reed, and subsequent playing characteristics. This is not a "swipe" at you - but leave the chemistry to the professionals - as I leave the "art" to the talented players.
The Doctor
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2002-09-18 03:25
Wow, a million different opionions of how to cure a reed. Everyone is an expert, and you know what? If it works for you you are the expert. I don't care what people say, if it works it's correct. I am a pro, and I have my methods they work for me. It doesn't hurt to age the reeds for a year or two, it can't hurt. I used to make my own and I would age the cane for a couple of years. But guess what? If it is good cane I made good reeds, if it was not, I had trouble. Same with commercial reeds. If you get a couple of box's and you like the cane, buy a couple of dozen boxes. My major suggestions are: Break the reed in slowly, over three or four day playing it a few seconds the first day, a few minutes the second, then sealing the bottom on the back of wet-dry sand paper on glass, play a few more minutes the third day making small adjustments, like balancing, play it about ten - fifteen minutes the next day making any other adjustments. By this time it's either good or it's a practise reed. Try to have at least 4 good reeds to rotate and constantly replace the ones that begin to go bad. Some reeds last for a few days others a few week and some months. By the way, I never let the bottom of the reed get wet, the bark part. That way the reeds do not have a problem not sealing on my mouthpiece because they don't warp. Water makes wood warp when it dries. If the strong part of the reed does not get wet it is likely not to warp. It works for me, my reeds do not warp in the winter, period. And they last longer too, they don't break down as quickly. I just wet the top portion of the reed for a short time in clear water in a film canaster. Hey, it works for me, and works well.
Bye! Ed Palanker Baltimore Symphony
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-09-18 15:35
EdP wrote<I never let the bottom of the reed get wet, the bark part.>
Not challenging any of your comments but I assume you mean when you soak them in water. When playing, don't all cane reeds get wet throughout...
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2002-09-18 16:22
Someday in near future serious clarinetists will need to have their own cane plantation and make reeds for their own use.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2002-09-19 03:01
I am currently experimenting with growth regulators and nutritional supplements for Arundo Donax. I got some slips from the Var Region during a trip and now have 14 foot tall plants growing in my test plots. Who knows, I may retire to a chateau surrounded by a cane plantation here in Georgia, U.S.A.. Actually, I have gotten a ton of information from USDA from their experiments with Arundo Donax as a biomass planting project. The people on the West coast probably are cursing anyone who grows AD purposefully - just as we laugh at those who grow Kudsu as an ornamental plant!
The Doctor
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