 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Denny G
Date: 2002-09-13 19:05
From what I've been able the find out, it takes $800 to buy and Ridenour and about $400 for a Vito V-40. Is the Ridenour twice as good as the V-40? Or can the Ridenour be had for less?
Here's another question is the Buffet R13 Greenline twice as good as the Ridenour (or 4x better than the V-40)?
From these three, which represents the best value for a person that wants a good horn that is not going to crack and does not need bore oil?
Denny G
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Author: Mark S.
Date: 2002-09-13 20:51
Bore oil debate aside, the Greenline is probably the superior instrument in all respects. It has all the characteristics of the traditional Buffet R13, and the environmental stability of the grenadilla/resin composite. Note that the Greenline is going to be significantly more money (if you can get one right now) than either of the other two horns you reference.
Best of luck in your search.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-09-13 21:32
I bought a used V-40 through eBay for fifty bucks. It plays just fine. If I ever see a Greenline R-13 for anything close to that kind of money, or even 4x as much, you can bet I'll buy it.
Regards,
John
who notes that used V-40s do not hold value as well as used R-13s
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Author: Fred
Date: 2002-09-13 22:55
The Greenline is a totally different animal than the V-40 or Ridenour. I would treat a Greenline like I would a vintage R13, except that I wouldn't worry about it cracking. The V-40 and Ridenhour would march, play outside, pep band, etc.
I've never played a Ridenour, but the V-40 is plenty good enough to be played by a serious player wanting a bulletproof clarinet.
(I know . . . not quite bulletproof . . . but it's plastic, OK?)
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-09-13 23:25
Maybe you are limiting your options unnecessarily. The following are opinions: 1. A plastic horn is the only one that doesn't need bore oil(even metal horns probably require oil in the bore occasionally). 2. If you want a wood horn,with the least potential for cracking, consider a used older one, even if it's pinned,which you should be able to get for less than $800 ... 3. A good plastic horn will serve you well i.e. until the time when you know,from experience, what you really want.
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Author: Denny G
Date: 2002-09-13 23:34
Thanks guys. What about the Vito Pete Fountain (7216). Is there any difference, other than cosmetic, between it and the V-40? They are offered with the same specs, but in the description, Vito says the V-40 is the "Flagship" of the plastics and has additional undercutting of the tone holes. They also say the 7216 has an emphasis on tonal flexibility and color. But I still have to wonder if the two instruments are the same except for the cosmetics. Does anybody know? Might the 7216 be better for jazz? They are virtually priced the same.
I saw a new 7216 offered on a website with gold keys. Don't know the price though. If it's as good as a V-40 and looks like a Pete Fountain, kinda, that's interesting (especially with gold keys and my polycrystal mpc).
Denny G
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Author: Fred
Date: 2002-09-13 23:53
Denny, If you are looking for a bargain, the V-40's do show up on ebay occasionally. You could probably buy three V-40's and repad them all for less than $800.
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Author: E
Date: 2002-09-14 00:05
Fred,
You said, "The Greenline is a totally different animal than the V-40 or Ridenour." How do you kow this if you've "never played a Ridenour..."?
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Author: Fred
Date: 2002-09-14 02:33
Reasonable question, E. The statement was made by the reputation each clarinet has acquired in the playing community. For instance, this bb contains a wealth of information on clarinets preferred by players frequenting this site. Do a search on "Ridenour" and then one on Greenline. Draw your own conclusions from what you glean.
Keep in mind, however, that the Greenline is marketed as a professional instrument and is priced accordingly. Do you feel like the Ridenour is attempting to share the same market?
Tom Ridenour's reputation speaks for itself, and I'm certainly not degrading his offering. However, I believe the TR147's selling price is an indication of it's targeted market.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-09-14 04:12
The bore size of the Ridenour TR-147 is 14.7mm ...GBK
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-09-14 14:22
JMc wrote<Regards,
John
who notes that used V-40s do not hold value as well as used R-13s>
Makes me wonder what the difference is,if any, between value and
demand. Don't you think that a $50 used Vito today will sell for about the same(inflation/deflation adjusted) price 5 years from now?
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-09-14 14:33
I guess if there's anything I've gleaned from this board and my own experience it's that the value of a horn or how good it is depends on the player's interpretaion of it playability, intonation etc etc. Consensus of board users is that one must audition instruments to evaluate them and certainly that is what some do. But for your typical neophyte this is an exercise in futility. So, one is left with trying to evaluate opinions which is as challenging as auditioning horns.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2002-09-14 14:39
I have a V-40 and like it quite a bit. It is not as good as my R13, but then $40 at a pawn shop (needed tenon corks and pads) isn't supposed to get you an R13.
I think that the V-40 suffers from the same syndrome that many intermediate horns do - lack of a good market niche. Too expensive for the beginner's parents to justify buying new . . . and not good enough when junior proves to be worthy of a better instrument.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2002-09-14 14:49
The Ridneour horn is a sleeper, and maybe availble through Brook Mays for less than the retail price (second hand or rental return).
You will take a BEATING on any of these horns at resale, even the R13 Greenline.
You are shopping at the most expensive time of the year for band instruments, demand is highest now.
If you're looking to used instruments, be aware that most will need service of some kind, to be playable (there are certainly exceptions) and this should be considered as a likely expense.
Buying a new instrument, retail, is pretty much like flushing money down the plumbing....
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Author: nzdonald
Date: 2002-09-14 23:29
i have demonstrated the Ridenour clarinet a few times here for a shop that brought a few in (on my recomendation) and then couldn't sell them (basically because no one in nz has heard of them and because the same shop purchased a shipload of E-11s and sold them at discounted price).....
.... my impression of this horn when i first tried one out (Clarinetfest 2000 in Oklahoma) was that it was amazing for a student clarinet... the ones that i have played more recently had very good tone and intonation, but i was not happy with the fitting and quality of the keywork. To be honest, next to my (handpicked) R-13 it was very easy to play, and i'm embarrassed to say that the intonation was an improvement.... when used with my Moenig barrel the tone was excellent.
A pity about the keywork, but in terms of intonation and tone i wouldn't be at all hesitant using this clarinet in a rehearsal or concert if i needed a back up horn. That is comparing it to a "professional clarinet", comparing it to other student horns in the shop was no problem- it won out easily over any other plastic clarinet i could try, for intonation and tone. For keywork- Yamaha wins hands down.
must rush
donald
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Author: Just me
Date: 2002-09-15 01:51
The Greenline is a professional clarinet, the others are student instruments. It's that simple!
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2002-09-15 14:35
Jeezit Clarinboy, I dunno if it really is that simple when you spend your own (as opposed to Daddy's) money.
The law of diminishing returns certainly applies.
At least your answer was simplistic.
If you're going to regurgitate advertising copy without anything to support the notion, you can save us all the trouble.
Have you actually PLAYED any of the instruments in question?
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-09-16 04:08
As I have never played a Ridenhour, comments about it are very interesting. But Just_me, where did you get the concept that "it's that simple!"? don't let Mr. Pascucci hear you say in public that a V-40 is a student instrument. Vito advertises it as an "Intermediate" instrument, and everyone I know who has played one would agree.
Bob, you have an excellent point. I had intended to note the percentage drop from new to first-sale used, in which I'm sure the V-40 initial owner will take a greater percentage bath than the first owner of an R-13. But you are certainly correct that the *second* owner of a V-40 may be in even better shape than the R-13's second owner. In fact, if I ever decide to sell my V-40 before it dissociates into a fine powder (or if my widow sells it), it will probably go for more than I paid. Not bad, eh?
Regards,
John
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-09-16 04:12
By the way, I believe I just goofed, spelling it "Ridenhour," but I believe those who spell it "Ridenour" are correct. It's okay, Mark, I'm complaining about my own spelling.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2002-09-17 20:13
Ridenour and V-40s are for student to intermediate players. The R-13 greenline is a pro-line instrument and really far superior in every way to the other two. You won't outgrow the greenline--and you will love the way it plays.
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