 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-09-02 23:23
I've notice, snooping around different places, that some shops (techs) charge more for working on pro horns than they charge for doing student ones. I don't understand the reason for this... other than maybe they use Norbeck or cork pads or something. I feel the same careful attention should be given to every instrument, that students are no less important than their teachers or top notch performers in this respect. Isn't the same technical skill required to fix one horn as necessary to fix another?
Have I missed something or, what is it I don't get?
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-09-02 23:45
Ron,
Your are right on the money. I charge the same price for an overhaul. It doesn't matter if it is an R-13, Opus, or Bundy. Haven't you also noticed that some "pro shops" do not work on student instruments at all? I really don't care where my money comes from. I've overhauled a Normandy 4, a Signet Soloist, and a Signet 100 this week in addition to my other work. Also, sometimes it takes more skill to get one of them working right than it does a "pro" model. I do charge more for cork pads since they take more labor and time to install properly.
jbutler
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-09-03 00:30
Thank you, John
I have noticed 'discrimination' against student instruments by some shops. I guessed maybe they have so much work they can be very choosey. (As above, I don't mean junk horns. Most shops here will not touch those).
I've seen some pretty tricky/sticky problems with student models that required more attention than 'usual' to correct. Following that line of observation, I'd guess one should charge more for the student horns :] But, all the shops around here have a price list so their customers know up front what it will cost - regardless of what 'kind' of instrument it is.
In practice, around my neighborhood anyway, the shops (and most independents) charge about the same for various services (including, "oh, there's no charge for that, i'll get you next time" ).
And, yes, cork pads etc. cost more and take more time and patience, so they cost more. That's listed on the prominently posted price list.
Personally, if I were the customer, I think I'd be leery of a shop that displayed two rates, one for pro horns and another one... less for fixing my student horn. I'd probably feel that I'm getting a second rate job on my second rate instrument.
- ron b -
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Author: Jeff
Date: 2002-09-03 10:20
I've always believed that the extra cost had more to do with the time spent with the customer than the quality of work done.
A student horn can be dropped off in minutes and picked up in minutes. Contrast that to the enormous amount of time that is spent with the pro or semi pro player. Not to imply that this time shouldn't be spent (it is necessary in determining exactly what should be done) but it is worth something.....a tech could be working (and making money) on another horn instead of talking and..... making nothing.
Not a Tech....was a Tech.
Jeff
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2002-09-03 12:48
I wonder if professional players are charged for the counselling sessions they receive across the counter?
A real 'shrink' costs $125 for an hour.
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Author: Just me
Date: 2002-09-04 02:24
Ron, I'm a professional player and teacher. I can tell you from experience that to do a professional overhaul that will satisfy a real pro it would, and does cost upwards of $500, my last cost $575. I expect the type of perfection in adjusting the pads,spring action, filling in even the smallest cracks or misperfections in the tone holes etc. that takes many more hours to perform then a student model clarinet is worth. I send my young students to a local repairman at a cost of about $225 for a complete overhaul. For that money he can't possibly put in the time it would take to satisfiy me. Why would I send them to my man and have them spend $575 for an overhaul when the clarinet only cost that much new. You get what you pay for, and that applies to clarinet repair too. It can be repaired, or it can be perfected. Just me
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-09-04 03:23
I'm not disputing that perhaps some pros prefer certain services most inclusive shops don't ordinarily get involved in but, for general information...
Complete overhauls on student, as well as 'professional', clarinets in my vicinity include thourough cleaning of bore and holes, tone hole attention if needed, springs replaced as needed and adjusted, small imperfections taken care of, keys swedged as necessary as well as screws and/or pivots replaced if too worn. Bent keys are straightened and small cracks or chips attended to. Keys are thoroughly cleaned and lightly buffed. Hinges and pivots are lubricated during assembly. All pads and corks are replaced with new material and are seated, adjusted (regulated) and thoroughly play tested. Follow up adjustment is N/C for a year. To the best of my knowledge the going rate for this service in central California is around $180 for double skin pads and filled cork. There's no point to using cheaper material. As John has already mentioned, using cork pads and/or other special-order types costs more.
Broken thumb rests and posts and things like that cost more too.
There's no charge for counselling but it's a nice touch when customers bring coffee and doughnuts))
- ron b -
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2002-09-04 06:46
The price should depend on the instrument and shouldn't be guided by whether it is pro or not. Some instruments are just easier to work on than others. I would charge more to overhaul a really old student horn than I would to overhaul a new Yamaha student horn, for example, because the Yammy's are a lot easier to work on. Likewise with saxophones. An old Jupiter is a lot harder to work on than a Selmer Super 80, the pads just fall into place on these. I work out my prices on the time taken and parts not on any other consideration. Some pro horns, such as Mark VI Alto's and sopranos can be difficult so therefore cost more. Bear in mind some instruments are not worth overhauling ever. I would have to load up the price to cover warranty on the work as some horns, ie. Century, Rex, The Sound, J. Michael, Xing Hai etc. would just keep coming back anyway. I refuse any sort of work on these horns at all CAVEAT EMPTOR. Likewise with the cheapest of the Yamaha student brass. I can crush the valve casings on the trumpets to unserviceable condition with my left hand. With the valves in!
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-09-04 18:41
Interesting viewpoint(s). Many shops turn away those horns you mention, Mark, simply because they will never stay in adjustment. If the shop can't rely on an instrument staying in service for a reasonable time they'll lose money on repeated come-backs. They're not worth the risk. The phrase, "Take it back where you bought it." has become standard around here. Shop owners just won't risk their reputations trying to fix lemons. The few exceptions that I'm aware of did not turn out well.
So far, it looks like some techs (shops) charge by individual time/material and some charge an overall average. I imagine the averaging method is easier on the bookkeeper whereas individual pricing might benefit the customer
I still, however, fail to find a sound reason to charge two to three times the going rate, whatever it happens to be, for 'professional instrument' work. My bulb may be dimming but, from my observations, there are decent instruments and there are junk ones. It's up to the individual shop to decide where to draw the line but, one way or another, they all get the same treatment.
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