 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Fred
Date: 2002-09-02 16:27
I recently went into a small music store, and when the owner asked what I was looking for, I replied, "I don't know . . . something I don't have yet." So when I walked out of the shop, I was the proud owner of a used R13 Eb clarinet. (I know . . . but I didn't have enough pain in my life without one.)
So as a novice to Eb, what advice can you give me? I will say that so far, my experience has been promising, but at the same time, somewhat puzzling. The instrument is amazingly well in tune with itself - much better than I expected from the horror stories I've heard. But I find myself having to use quite a bit more embouchure pressure to get the pitch up to play at 440. The mouthpiece is a Vandoren 2RV and I'm using Vandoren 3.5 reeds. The barrel appears to be the original barrel and measures ~43mm.
I don't have enough experience to know how to navigate the landmines of playing Eb. Is this the norm for "the beast", or should I look for a mechanical/equipment reason for playing flat? The horn plays super, is in beautiful condition, and just came off a fresh repad. The embouchure thing is "doable" - but a far cry from how I play Bb.
Your input, best wishes, and sympathies will all be appreciated.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-09-02 17:53
Congrats! - Its a different world, what little eefer experience I've had! Playing mainly bass cl, I tried my Noblet [1960's??] Eb for a Wagner and couldn't even stay in pitch with the flutes, let alone the piccolos [I still shudder re: playing 1800's band music, up high with [vs] a sharp pic in Silverton CO, el. 9300 ft]. I recently tried an older Buff C [wrap-around reg. key], dern good horn, not as bright a sound as my [big-bore] Conn C. Earlier I had my barrel shortened 1-2 mm, its now 40mm, best mp is a 2* H. Couf, have a VD marked 3V!! and a Sel. C*, however, havent played it for a while. Hope others can help you [more!]. Don
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Author: Earl Thomas
Date: 2002-09-02 18:23
I've a lot of E-flat experience. The Vandoren 2RV is probably as good as it gets in "stock" mouthpieces. I've two Ann Arbor Kaspars, one of which is slightly better than the other.
I find that using regular B-flat clarinet reeds, especially the Vandoren Black Masters, and cutting off enough of the heel to permit the reed to lay flat on the mouthpiece, is the best solution.
When I first started it was on the Juilliard Orchestra's Selmer E-flat instrument. 'Twas great and I had no problem with anything. Then I bought a new Buffet (1947 or thereabouts) and it was great, also, except it had the flattest open G I've ever heard. All the recordings I made with that instrument turned out just fine, except for having to "lip-up) that open G.
I'm kind of weird re using regular B-flat reeds, even to the point of using them on legit or otherwise Soprano Sax.
The above advice on the regular B-flat reeds is probably the best I could give you. Peter
Spriggs can make an E-flat barrel which would probably solve all your problems, and you can do a try-out arrangement with him, I'm sure. There may be others in the States, but I'm not that familiar with them right now, since I live on Vancouver Island (paradise).
In any case, I don't think you should have to alter your embouchure, and you'll probably find that out over time. Depending on your oral "bite", a moderately steep angle, very shallow
upper teeth placement (about 1/8th of an inch) and a big reach down the reed with the lower teeth (jaw) with the lower lip-rim stretched up against (definitely NOT over) the lower teeth and you should be OK. All the best. Hope you get to play lots of Stravinsky, Shoenberg, opus 9, Berg Chamber Concerto, some Varese, R. Strauss, Ravel, Prokofiev, etc. The literature is quite rewarding. Congratulations on your great "impulse" buy!
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Author: William
Date: 2002-09-02 19:06
Ditto the need for a lightly shortened barrel. And what I use for my set-up is an old Selmer HS** with V12 3.5 Bb reeds (shortened). I just clip them off with a wire cutter so they do not extend over the bass of the mpc. And then practice with your electronic tuner *on* and learn which way to favor which notes. Fortunately, my pro level Yamaha needs little adjustment, even the high F# and G (above the staff), but I always keep the tuner handy to double check certain intervals. Eb clarinet is fun!!!! Good luck.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2002-09-02 22:14
i also have to struggle a little to reach a440 on all 3 of my eb,s. changing mpcs hasnt helped. i think getting the barrel shortned a little bit is the ticket. it cheaper than having one custom made. very few barrels seem to be avalb. for the eb as opposed to tons for the Bb. international musical suppliers does list a few in their cat. but they arnt cheap!
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Author: Fred
Date: 2002-09-02 22:29
Do you have suggestions about who can or will shorten barrels? How do you know how much to shorten it?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-09-03 01:37
Fred - I'd look for a repair shop which has good machining equipment [I had a good friend, expert machinist in our oil co's Research Dept!!!] . For a barrel, it [prob] will take require 2 "cuts" if a ring isn't removed, otherwise 3 if it is. Shortening a "dedicated" mouthpiece [body and tenon] only 1-2 mm will require only 2 machinings, will likely be an easier job, and not "tinker" with an original barrel! Will achieve the same result! Was my C cl choice. You and your tech should discuss how much! Luck, Don
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2002-09-03 02:17
albert alphin of "clarinet resourses" does this kind of work. look him up under the resourses section.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-09-03 02:24
super20dan wrote:
>
> albert alphin of "clarinet resourses" does this kind of
> work. look him up under the resourses section.
He's also a sponsor.
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Author: jez
Date: 2002-09-03 13:51
Welcome to the E flat world.
If the instrument is consistently flat, then maybe shortening the barrel is the answer, however if you,re having to use a different embouchure, perhaps you should experiment with some different mouthpieces to find something nearer to what you're used to on the B flat. If you have to play a part that doubles on both you'll save yourself a lot of trouble swapping.
You don't want to treat it as an entirely different instrument.
Good luck
jez
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Author: Fred
Date: 2002-09-03 23:04
Now that I realize the 43mm barrel is really too long (41.5mm is Buffet standard), I know I'll have to either:
1. Modify a mouthpiece and lose flexibility in changing mouthpieces.
2. Modify the barrel (a good solution).
3. Purchase the right barrel (Expensive if new; good solution if used.)
My first choice would be to purchase a used R13 barrel of correct length. Then I'd have two barrels for close to the same money as modifying my 43mm one. Second choice is to modify the barrel I've got. Don't really care for modifying the mp since I've determined that the barrel is really the problem.
Used barrels aren't easy to come by for eefers. I'm checking around, but please contact me off the bb if you know of any leads. I don't want this thread to turn commercial.
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Author: Just me
Date: 2002-09-04 02:43
Careful with some of that advise. It might be you and not the horn. Have some other players try it to see if others can play it in tune. It could be your embouchure, incorrect voicing, or lack of good breath support. Could even be a problem in you throat. If no one else can play it in tune with your mouthpiece see if you can try others to see if that's the problem first. You can try 3 from Woodwind/BrassWind for a very small deposit on a credit card and get most of it refunded if you return all three. Try different brands and facings. It it is a problem with the horn ask me about where to go to get it worked on, it needs an expert on tuning to fix it not just a good repaiman. If you just go to a smaller barrel you might find the throat tones, or the low register, way to sharp to deal with. Then you have an A 440 horn that can't play in tune with it self, or anyone else. Get back to me if you need names. I'm a proffesional player and teacher, major orchestra and conservatory. Just me.
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Author: kes
Date: 2002-09-05 01:20
Well, I have no experience whatsoever. But...Those things are just sooo cute!
:)
Good luck!
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Author: Fred
Date: 2002-09-05 11:32
"Just me", you brought up some valid points. But do you agree the 43mm for an R13 barrel is unusually long; that standard is 41.5mm; and that barrel length affects intonation across the scale?
I'm a better scientist than I am musician, but it sounds like "root cause" to me.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-09-05 13:45
May I suggest, as I did in the thread re: Dynamic H, that, for any clarinet, it is the total length of the mouthpiece + barrel that determines the pitch for each brand/model clarinet. On several horns, I chose to shorten the mp, so as to NOT change an original barrel, thinking of the cl's future, beyond me!! Don
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2002-09-05 19:03
Back to the original subject:
Get Peter Hadcock's excerpt book for the E-flat. It has things gobs of good alternate fingerings, and a transcription for E-flat of the D clarinet part from Till Eulenspiegel.
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