 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: BP
Date: 2002-08-28 19:29
I am wondering if we should play the stronger reeds as we can, or if it is better to try to play reeds a bit lighter.
I see a lot a people in France at High School in Paris playing very strong reeds, even stronger that Vandoren's advices :
3.5 traditionnal or 4 V12 with a B45 or even with a B40
With my new B40, I play something between 2.5 or 3 trad. and other players tell that I would play better with stronger reeds. But I have not the capacity and my reeds seem to match with Vandoren advices.
Should I try to play the stronger reed possible?
What is the problem with playing light or lighter reeds?
Lighter reeds do they give less volume and/or projection?
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Author: Hans
Date: 2002-08-28 20:39
Well, I am not a specialist but from my own experience I would say that you should use the reed which plays best for you. If it happens to be a 1.5 or 4, what's the problem? I play a 2550K-10M with Vandoren 3, which untill now works fine with me. Perhaps one day I'll try 3.5 but for the moment I am happy with my reed. Look for what's best for you. Stronger reed does not mean better play! By the way, reed questions and answers can also be found in the archives of this board. Good luck!
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Author: tww
Date: 2002-08-28 21:28
I have been told to get a strong reed for optimum tone quality and intonation. I have also been told to get a soft reed for optimum response and blowing freedom. I suggest using what works best for you, and not using too strong or too soft of a reed. As for Vandoren's reed strength recommendations, take them with a grain of salt. Vandoren suggests a minimum strength of 4 for the M15 mouthpiece, and I find 3.5's to be plenty hard enough.
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Author: robert hoit
Date: 2002-08-28 21:33
I agree with Hans on this. Often mouthpieces play best when the reeds match, harder reeds for closed mouthpieces ; softer reeds for more open. The name of the game for me has always been maximum sound and intonation with the least effort possible. If you play on too soft a reed your intontation will suffer, if it is too hard then the tone will suffer or you will be spending energy on just producing sound instead of other concerns, such as making music.
That being said, a V12 3-3.5 is generally a good benchmark and what a lot of folk play on. I use V12 3.5 and I played on a 5RV lyre for forever and now I play on an O'brian 4*.
but i can tell u what I play on all day and it means nothing, at the end of the day you have to b able to be comfortable and produce a good in tune sound. There is no need to work overly hard for a good sound.
hope this helps.
best wishes
bob
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-08-28 22:24
There are certain notes which more easily develop a 'fuzzy' tone if very strong reeds are used, possibly because the stronger reed makes the air vibrate more aggressively in and out of the tone hole.
Eventually, with a small tone hole, as this vibration becomes more aggressive, this oscillating 'flow' becomes turbulent, which greatly restricts the flow.
This is common with throat Bb, side Eb/Bb, C#/G#, and others, much more so on some instruments than others.
UI have customers who want these notes clearer and this can often be achieved by slightly better venting, but there reaches a stage of venting when this has no more effect on clarity, and at this point the player must face the fact that they have brought this problem upon themselves by the extra strong reeds they are using.
Note that this fuzzy sound can be overcome somewhat by the nature of the embouchure and air pressure parameters.
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2002-08-29 00:57
Climate and altitude can have an effect also. I play in Australia and even crossing the mountains West of Sydney requires a different choice of reed. Likewise playing in Singapore or Malaysia where the temperature and humidity are a lot higher in general mean a different choice of reed. We have locally made single reeds grown, aged and cut in South Australia which has a more mediterranean climate than Sydney . Their strengths are way to hard in Sydney most people only venture as high as 2 1/2 but in the state where they are made which is less humid they seem to play 3 or 3 1/2. I can safely say that, excluding legit orchestral and conservatorium students, the average professional player and doubler would use something in the order of 2 1/2 blue box Vandoren or 3 V12. Not many play any harder. On this bulletin board I here of people who I assume are in the USA and by the way they talk are student players ie. high school level playing on reeds as hard as blue box 4's. I can only wonder why.
One of our best Symphony players and now respected teachers used Vandoren 1 clipped up a little bit. One of our elder statesmen of the tenor sax uses Vandoren 1 and plasticover 1 1/2 on a Berg Larsen mouthpiece. I myself use Lavoz medium soft on a Beechler M6S or Berg 115 for tenor. On clarinet I use V12 3 1/2 for concert/ military band playing but back to 2 1/2 for doubling and jazz playing. Over the mountains in cold weather I use Zonda 2 1/2.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-08-29 02:18
Good responses. I generally use #2 reeds, including Vandoren blue box. This allows me to get the tone and playing characteristics that I prefer for non-symphonic music (especially Jazz). Sometimes I use reeds as strong as 2 1/2, rarely 3. I cannot get the sound I want with a stiffer reed, although the upper altissimo notes do become easier to reach. I enjoy the flexibility of the instrument with a fairly open mouthpiece and medium soft reed, so that intonation is established less by the hardware and more by how I use it.
The manufacturer's recommendations are aimed toward the majority of players. If your playing style is not "average," you may prefer something quite different. Be yourself.
Regards,
John
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-08-29 03:00
John, your point about the altissimo notes is exactly it. Last summer, I showed my Bulgarian clarinet teacher the fingerings I know way up high. On his 5JB/1.5 Plasticover combo, he couldn't get past high E (sorry, I can never remember the octave designations...)
On either my 45dot or my (ancient) Borbeck 13, with a V12 #3, I can get up to "double C." (Again, sorry about the octave stuff.)
Katrina
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2002-08-29 06:15
Mark, as mentioned earlier it does depend on how open/closed the mouthpiece is. I know a number of professional players in Queensland and they are using Vandoren 3.5's, Mitchell Lurie 5's, Daniels 4's...etc. I also know players in the Melbourne Symphony who play on Vandoren 4's and 4.5's on a closed mouthpiece.
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Author: Irwin
Date: 2002-08-29 12:17
two comments:
First, I completely agree with Aussie Nick and the others. There's no standard for reed strength that applies to all players because all players aren't playing on the same mouthpiece.
Second, and I'm not making a sweeping generalization but merely reporting what my teacher said in reference to me. Sometimes using a stiffer reed to eliminate chirps and squeeks in the altissimo is the easy way out of really putting lots of face into my playing on a softer reed (i.e., tight, controlled embochure and focused breath control). The problem with using the stiffer reed to control the altissimo (again in my case) is that it's at the expense of the clear, dark lower tones.
Anyway, I now play on V12's, 3.5. And although almost all of them in a box are "playable", generally about half of them are a tad bit too stiff to achieve the sound I want. Sometimes I can work them into something acceptable using the reed wizard, other times I just pitch them since I'd rather spend my spare time playing rather than messing around with finicky reeds.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-08-29 14:37
Many symphony players use extremely hard reeds. Ricardo Morales, Anthony Gigliotti and Stanley Drucker come to mind. Jack Brymer says the same in his book. Steve Girko, who studied with Drucker and plays a very similar setup, let me try it, and I could barely get a sound out. Steve plays it beautifully.
I think it's because you have to be really loud to balance against a large orchestra. Gigliotti used to say there were only three possible volume levels in Philadelphia: forte, fortissimio and BTSOOI (Blow The Sh*t Out Of It).
For us mortals, and some pros, soft reeds prevent apoplexy.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: kes
Date: 2002-08-30 00:30
Well, from what I've heard and experienced, you can put the reed up higher on the mouth piece and it will make the reed play harder. This way you have more options if you get a softer reed. With a hard reed, it's harder to make it play softer. You'd have to shave it down. Yep!
Thats all now from me...
:)
Ciao!
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