 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mindy
Date: 2002-08-12 22:13
I was wondering what everyone thought of having chair placement in high school. My director doesnt like doing them, but we did one last year (my 9th grade year) and then I beat out a senior so no one liked/likes me...... And now my director doesn;t want to do chair placements. just wondering what your thougts are about it! Thank you in advance!
Mindy
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Author: charles
Date: 2002-08-12 22:30
Mindy,
Well I think cahir placement by audition is a great idea. I just got out of high school last year, and I was 1st chair all 4 years, over some very talented people. I think it makes everyone who really cares work alot harder. As a first chair you strive to stay there, and as further down you want to improve and get better parts. Now also I can understand that while you may want to play 1st part as I did, sometimes I would play 2nd or 3rd parts, because sometimes those are the important parts, it doesnt matter if they arent fun, they can be just as musical, and hard at the same time. But I think they are a great way to make the class interesting. Just my opinion from another recent student.
Charles Munden
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Author: Dee
Date: 2002-08-12 23:21
If quality is NOT rewarded, very few will care about playing well and the quality of the entire band will deteriorate. It is human nature to strive to be better if there is a reward for doing so.
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Author: Jacy
Date: 2002-08-12 23:32
Mindy,
Personally, I really don't mind chair auditions. They give people an incentive to practice, force us to be accountable for not practicing and whatnot, and they tend to give people the feeling that they've been fairly placed. My band directors have always voiced a worry about auditions messing up our morale and overstressing us; instead, they prefer that we directly challenge someone else's seat, which just opens a whole new Pandora's Box of social problems. They seat us, with some exception, by grade, which really isn't working; people will move up a section or two, but demoting is never an option even when it's sensible. We're tested on our band parts, but those can't be used as a benchmark, seeing as there's a difficulty diff between 1st and 3rd parts. We often know where we stand amongst our section a bit better than our band director does (because they are blinded by seniority), and auditioning usually makes sure that everyone is on the same page.
As for the wanting to play 1st, I find that it's not so much that the parts are more fun, but you're often with a...higher concentration of strong players who may motivate you more. I found that when I've played 3rd (and sometimes 2nd), I've often felt like I was "carrying" the section because we've never had much strength there.
One question, though: How is your band director using the audition results to seat you? (top 6 play 1st and so on, or are they "sprinkling" the top chairs?)
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Author: Cindy
Date: 2002-08-13 04:30
One thing chair placement does is prevents rebellion among the higher skilled younglings
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Author: Leah
Date: 2002-08-13 13:09
mindy, i just graduated from high school as well and i think that there are positives to both ends of the situation. we had no chair placements and that made it so that everyone eventually received first, second and third parts, and had a chance to have solos/exposed parts. that is valuable for the players who would have ended up with all of the 3rd parts if there was a seating chart. also, there were different combinations of players as well so that ultimately, everyone played with a different partner (or in bigger schools 'sections') on different pieces.
however, i think being demoted and "challenging" can also be valuable for some. in 3rd and 4th grade, the band program i was in at school was 3rd through 5th graders. my 4th grade year i "beat out" the three 5th graders. having done both, i think placements make people have to deal with their feelings (jealousness, anger) in a more prominent way than the laid back no placement. Some people can deal with that situation well, others can't. and i guess your band director 'can't win them all' if he switches or even stays with seating. but experiencing both is a good thing!
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-08-13 16:12
Our band director has a system that works well for me. At the beginning of the year, everyone recieves a copy of the Mid-State/All-state audition sheet. We then go through a tryout sort of like All-State (This is also good pratice for those who really want to try out.) We are judged by that, and then periodically throughout the year we are judged again by a random excerpt from our performance music. You might be first chair one day and fifth the next.
It helps keep the competition smooth.
He also switches whether he gives 1st to the best or "sprinkling" the parts out.
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Author: Jacy
Date: 2002-08-13 20:42
"It's high school band.... does it really matter?"
Well, to some, especially those who don't have the luxury of being able to snub school band programs just because they happen to be in some prestigious youth orchestra. No judgement, though.
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Author: Eileen
Date: 2002-08-13 20:49
I've been in bands with different methods. The best one was where everyone auditioned at the beginning of the year for placement into 1st, 2nd or 3rd sections. No further challenges allowed. What is the point of getting in a tizzy over whether you're seated in the first or last chair of the 2nd clarinet section? It's all the same part. The egos and psychodramas of the traditional systems seemed overall to be counterproductive. Learning to play all the parts together as a section is more important than obsessively practicing one passage in hopes of knocking down a higher-placed player.
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Author: Larry Liberson
Date: 2002-08-13 21:09
Or you could install a system such as orchestral string sections do: rotation. This way everybody plays various assignments and you sit with different people on a stand, which (theoretically, anyway) spurs one to keep one's playing up, not get too complacent, etc.
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Author: Jacy
Date: 2002-08-13 21:09
Eileen, I completely agree that the weekly (Interlochen-style) challenge method is ridiculous. After all, if people properly prepare for their first audition, why should that seating be invalid a week later? However, re-seating at midterm might be a good idea in a non-semestered school.
In my school, you can't be in wind ensemble, the pit orchestra, or any of the smaller chamber groups unless you hold a high seat in the concert band, hence my strong feelings about fair chair placements. I quite aware that school groups are pretty much the only ones available to quite a few of the people in my band because my city's youth music groups are difficult, if not impossible, for wind players to get into.
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Author: Sandra F. H.
Date: 2002-08-14 12:13
In High School, I had the experience of two different music directors. The first was quite disciplined and he auditioned us all and seated us, and I loved it, but many parents and kids did not. The music program many kids "drop out". The discipline worked, and we performed some difficult, and fun, music. After that director left, the next music director did not believe in seating and "the more the merrier". The marching band did very well and gained numbers in the ranks, but overall the groups did not have the discipline needed to create really good performances. Seats were chosen by "the pecking order". All around there was resentment and jealousy in BOTH regimes. I like the idea of chairs, especially if small ensembles will perform, and possibly using a rotation system. Yes, it does make one work and practice to get to the "elusive first chair". Those that don't work as hard or maybe are not as talented will sit in the lower seats. Those that practice, but are not necessarily the 1st chair players would have a chance to play different parts in a rotation setting. Regular auditions also give the director a perspective of the group's and individuals' talents.
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Author: Jean
Date: 2002-08-14 13:17
So why did I work my $^& off as a kid if I wasn't going to sit in the highest position? If ball players stink they don't even get to play. At least in band everyone has the chance to play, lousy or not. Has your band director tried blind auditions...putting the players behind a screen and not knowing who is playing? Perhaps that is the most fair way to go. Our symphony is getting a new director, rumor has it he wants to re-audition everyone. I say, "Bring it on." A bunch of string players are in a tizzy...why, they don't belong there in the first place. But then I practice everyday, most of them don't touch their instruments between rehearsals and that is apparent in their playing. This is a paid group BTW.
What is everyone so afraid of? No, I haven't always sat in the chair I "thought" I deserved, but life isn't always fair now is it? I wish people would stop being such big babies. I was just at camp where there were no audtions which I thought was absurd. Three of the guys who had played there for years assumed they deserved to sit in the first three spots. I find this extremely chaotic.
Sorry to rant, but this is a competitive world we live in. "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch."
Jean "I have an audition in 2 weeks and feel very ready" Adler
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-08-14 18:43
Jean wrote:
>
> If ball players stink they
> don't even get to play
I'm not so sure anymore. Do they keep score? ;^)
(for those outside of the US or haven't read newspapers for a while - some schools have eliminated scoring so that no one loses and everyone feels good.)
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-08-15 02:40
no one LOSES and everyone feels GOOD??? - american never ceases to amaze me
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