 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Lucky
Date: 2002-08-12 22:32
Hi,
There is always a lot of talk about undercut tone holes when you read clarinet purchase literature. I need to be reminded about how undercutting is done and what are the advantages. I know it is in my long-term memory somewhere but ......
Thanks
Hank
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-08-12 22:53
There is more than a single way to do undercutting. One way is sticking a tapered reamer-type tool into the bore, inserting a device into the appropriate hole and pick up the tool and pull it upward, then rotate it until the undercut is complete.
Undercut tone holes, if the instrument is well-designed, can assist in achieving better comparative intonation of the clarion and chalumeau registers; that is, through undercutting, the two can be made to more closely approximate (or actually reach) a genuine twelfth.
Regards,
John
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2002-08-13 07:32
Like having a clean polished bore it just makes everything smoooooother. You can also back cut with a tilting drill press and appropriately designed bit.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-08-13 12:19
I imagine tht teh quickest, easiest way, during manufacture, is for a CNC milling typ machine to grab a dove-tail cutter, plunge it to the bottom of a tone hole, then move right around the circumference of the tone hole while spinning, like a spinning planet orbiting around the sun, and then withraw out the tone hole again. Is this actually done? Is this the way Yamaha does their plastic clarinets?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Dow
Date: 2002-08-13 13:11
Refer to Redall book "The Clarinet" London 1952 dicusses at great leangth various aspects pros and cons on undercutting.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob
Date: 2002-08-13 13:18
I have only heard "pros" about undercutting but I suppose that if one undercuts on an instrument that wasn't designed to be undercut there could be disadvantages.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-08-13 13:52
We farm-boys can do a fair imitation of undercutting by carefully working our way around the inside edge of the tonehole with a needle file held at an angle, or (very carefully!!!!) with a Dremel-type tool with a thin cylindrical or mushroom-shaped grinding stone bit. Generally, toneholes that aren't undercut by the manufacturer probably shouldn't be except to clear up a specific intonation, fuzziness, or response problem.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-08-13 19:25
I agree with David. Based on everything I have been able to find on the topic, The total geometry of a Clarinet is a tough design problem. Designing the hole sizes and positions of conical-bore instruments (saxophone and oboe, for instance), is much simpler, because the octave overblow is almost always a genuine octave. But the twelfth overblow of a clarinet is rarely an actual twelfth, and undercutting combined with adjustments of hole size and location can allow the designer to adjust the chalumeau and clarion tones somewhat independently. This means that the twelfth relationship can turn out much better, if not right on. But just taking an ordinary Clarinet without undercut holes and undercutting them could result in a virtually irreparable disaster, unless you know exactly what you're doing. This really does approach rocket science, which I suspect is one reason David would be good at it.
In modern times, I do not know of any "professional" Clarinet made without undercut tone holes, nor do I know of any student instrument that has them. YMMV.
Of course, if you're designing a flute, just copy Theobald Boehm.
Regards,
John
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank
Date: 2002-08-13 21:01
Yes, David would have an edge. Maybe now in his shop, he can say to others "well, it's just like undercutting clarinet tone hole science." :-)
Hank
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank
Date: 2002-08-13 21:31
Hi Everyone,
I knew that I had the answer in the long-term memory bank somewhere all along. However, the excellent answers on the BB for my orignial question only amplifies what is said in Clark Fobes' outstanding article found at
http://www.clarkwfobes.com/Tuning%20article/Tuning%20the%20Clarinet%20for%20PS.htm
Check this out and grab your Dremel.
Hank
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2002-08-14 05:50
Hank - thanks, too - I'll print it off, read it tonight
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-08-14 15:45
JMcAulay wrote "In modern times, I do not know of any 'professional' Clarinet made without undercut tone holes, nor do I know of any student instrument that has them."
Plastic student Yamahas have had them for some time.
Traditionally, the labour-intensive task of undercutting accounted for much of the high cost of pro instruments. If Yamaha can do it cost-effectively on student instruments, then surely one can validly question exactly why pro instruments still cost so much more.
If undercutting is done using CNC machinery, it is very easy to refine the programme parameters to copy the undercutting (and other vital dimensions) of any outstanding instrument - very cheaply!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-08-14 19:56
Gordon: Thanks for the information. I was unaware of that.
So, is the story that Vito produces in Kenosha some Yamaha low-end Clarinets just an old wives' tale? To my knowledge, the only undercut instrument sold as a Vito is the V-40. Or is the story fact, and a Yamaha student instrument is really acoustically equivalent to a Vito V-40?
Regards,
John
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob
Date: 2002-08-14 21:26
I was told by a dealer that LeBlanc Kenosha makes clarinets for Yamaha and I have no reason to doubt him....for what it's worth.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Vytas
Date: 2002-08-14 21:49
I'm not sure about Vito in colors and 7242 models, but the rest of Vito clarinets do HAVE undercut tone holes (7212, 7213, 7214, 7214P, 7216, V40)....V
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-08-15 05:29
Vytas: Thank you for that information. As the Leblanc afficionado that I am, I shouldn't be carrying such misinformation. My apologies for having passed it on to others.
(Rains: Why did you come to Casablanca?
(Bogart: For the waters.
(Rains: But there are no waters in Casablanca.
(Bogart: I was misinformed.
Regards,
John
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
