 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: John Gibson
Date: 2002-08-12 20:57
Not able to afford a Wiseman custom to fit my SILVER KING and R-13, I've decided to buy an ANVIL case and work the inside to fit the horns myself. Question is, what kind of foam should I use. Foam rubber? Styrofoam? I'll obviously be making the cutouts myself and covering with velvet....but what kind of foam is best? And what's the best way to cut the stuff? Should I use spray glue to stick the velvet to the foam, or is there another way?
Anyone ever done this? could sure use some help. Thanks...
John Gibson
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Author: Ed
Date: 2002-08-13 00:16
High density foam should work. Years ago I did a case and traced the instrument and then cut it out using a razor blade. Good Luck.
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Author: The other John Gibson
Date: 2002-08-13 00:49
I used a lap top computer case and high density foam. Be sure to test your glue on the foam before diving in to the gluing. Some glues simply make the foam melt away. I used a glue gun. For cutting the foam, my wife suggested using good sharp scissors and that worked better than a razor blade.
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Author: Jim E.
Date: 2002-08-13 04:09
There are 2 types of styrofoam, expanded and extruded, it is the extruded that you want, the expanded is the white crumbly stuff. Building supply houses sell the extruded in 2 by 8 foot sheets in various thicknesses up to 2 inches. Often it is the Dow brand and is blue in color.
John in the above post is right about the problems with adhesives. Solvent based adhesives will make the foam vaporize. Water and alcohol based adhesives are usually safe. "Liquid nails" makes foam safe adhesives which may work for you provided they don't bleed through the fabric. Water based contact adhesive may work as well, but I've never used it on foam.
For me, foam is best shaped with a VERY sharp, thin bladed knife. A breakaway disposable blade knife is what I use and I over extend the blade for extra legnth, but in doing so be aware that the blade can accidentally break and possibly cut you. A Dremel type rotary cutting tool ought to work as well. I use a rag moistened with a LITTLE acetone to smooth the cut edges. Be careful, too much acetone will melt all of the foam, and acetone is hazardous to use.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-08-13 12:24
Polyurethane foam is much more resilient - it does not permanently crush like polystyrene does. It is more rubbery in its behaviour.
However, with any foam or adhesive, I would be wary about the effects of the fumes on the metal of your clarinet. Grassi flutes, Fox bassoons, Jupiter saxes, and goodness knows how many others have had severe corrosion problems created by fumes from case materials.
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Author: herb k
Date: 2002-08-13 13:35
Electric carving knife (kitchen variety) works great on foam.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-08-13 13:40
For my first case I used "high density" foam that I got from Musicians Friend; this is a flexible rubbery type unlike styro or urethane rigid foams. There are several kinds of "foam"...a whole subject unto itself. I used a scalpel, razor blades and scissors and was not really happy with the results. If you use a sander you create a dusty mess which can also mess up your nasal passages. Finally..a Ferree's cork knife worked best due to its sharpness plus flexibility. Personally I would't use any adhesive that "sets" permanently as you will find that adjusting,trimming and fitting require the skills of a tailor....IF you are trying to duplicate the original case configuration.
After this initial journey at re-doing a case I was left with the opinion that attempting to recreate the original construction was not the way to do it. My opinion now is that the better way would be to use high density foam and cut it into "jigwsaw puzzle" pieces and cover the sides that will "show" with velvet. Put a flat piece of foam on the bottom of the case with velvet on only the top side. Then place the clarinet sections on top of the bottom piece and arrange the jigsaw blocks around them. Of course, the jigsaw pieces would be various easy to cut shapes...not all identical. LOL
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Author: beejay
Date: 2002-08-13 22:43
I agree with Gordon. Some foams may give off fumes that are ruinous for silver-plated keys. If I were in your shoes, I would think seriously about making a mould, and using that to create a matrix made out of papier-maché. This is quite widely used to pack computer equipment nowadays, and is suprisingly strong. You could then use the money you save on foam to buy a really nice piece of thick velvet.
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-08-14 01:38
beejay - you're response seems to be the most sensible to me ((IMHO))
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2002-08-14 15:10
I did a nice double case for my R-13 Bb and my A in a $20 aluminum shell obtained from Harbor freight. It had open cell foam already glued inside. It was easy to cut the foam to the apropriate size. I then placed a nice heavy velour material over the cutouts tucking it in deeply. Then I tucked it in around the outer edges of the foam. It stays put by itself without any glue. Should it come out you just re-tuck it. It looks nice and really protects the horns.
Yes the fumes from the foam could mess with your plating, expecially if it is silver... probably won't hurt the nickle plated horns, but more likely is that the outgassing of the solvents in your glue are more likely to cause damage.
I got a "no tarnish" strip from an istrument suppply company to put inside the case of my silver plated soprano sax. It seems to be doing a great job of protecting the finish. I think I will go back and put one of these uder the velour in my case... couldn't hurt and wouldn't be obtrusive. Be aware that the strips outgas also so they need to be replace a couple of times each year to maintain their efficacy.
Terry
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-08-14 15:51
at lest some fumes seem to affect nickel more than silver. I once made many wire puzzles, had them nickel plated, put them in a wokoden box that I had recently varnished with polyurethane, and they developed severe, off-white, rough, very-difficult-to-remove corrosion overnight! This was similar to the Fox & Jupiter corrosion I mentioned above.
I think the papier mache idea is excellent. But shrinkage as it dries may be a problem if it is made to accurately fit the instrument.
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Author: John Gibson
Date: 2002-08-14 20:29
Beeeeeeeejay....
How do I make a mold? And I've never done paper mache before?
John Gibson
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-08-15 11:39
There would be many ways of tackling this. One (of many) would be to begin by putting the clarinet in a borrowed case that you like, cover the instrument parts with gladwrap and cover with plaster. When the plaster is set, turn it up the other say, position your clarinet parts in it (upside down), cover again with gladwrap, and proceed to apply many strips of papier mache over the gladwrap.
It is possibly difficult to do a decent job of papier mache if you have never done it before. The basics are firstly that the sharper a curve is, the smaller the pieces of paper applied, and secondly, smooth EVERY piece of paper as you apply it, with just the right amount of glue. That comes with experience.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-08-15 11:41
If you want to go the foam way, one option is to make the plaster mould, + instrument + gladwrap, as above, and then spray it with foam from a spray can. But very process has its learning curve, and what if the 'liquid' foam dissolved the gladwrap!!!
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