 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: beejay
Date: 2002-08-09 09:12
In orchestral practice, is it more usual to count rests as measures or as beats? I'm fairly new to orchestral playing, and my method has been to count off the measures on my fingers during long pauses. I discovered that my teacher, who has a long orchestral career, counts the beats, which he says he finds less prone to error. I'm not trying to find out whether one method or the other is right or wrong, but I would appreciate ideas from other players. In my first weeks with the orchestra last year, I actually found counting more difficult than playing and I am still not entirely at ease with it.
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Author: Dan Borlawsky
Date: 2002-08-09 12:03
Beejay, I think you have to count using a method that's comfortable and familiar to you; I believe you'll make fewer errors that way. FWIW, most of the players I know use the same method you do.
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Author: Jerry McD
Date: 2002-08-09 13:28
Beejay,
I think you really need to count the beats. Composers often use hemiola to change the emphasis of measures and it would be easy to get lost (Brahms is a prime example). One of the things I do is if the rests go across several rehearsal numbers I write in if there is a major entrance. For example, if I am resting from rehearsal #4 all the way to rehearsal #7 and the trumpets come it at #5 and the flutes at #6, I'll note it in my part. Some well edited scores might have some of these things already written in, it helps me to keep focused and listen to what is happening during the rests. I hope this helps.
Jerry McD.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-08-09 14:10
Beejay -
Belt and suspenders. I count the beats of each measure and put down a finger to mark the measures. Better safe than sorry, and it's more embarrassing to miscount rests than to miss notes.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2002-08-09 14:10
When in doubt, I just watch the first clarinetist nod.
Counting beats is the only way I can manage, but when I have more than three measures 'off' I have to take off my shoes just to keep track.
Got busted for counting to eleven, recently.
One-two three
Two-two three
Troi- duex troi
Charles du Toit (and so on)
PS - Don't pat your foot on the bandstand lest you're Belgian.
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2002-08-09 16:48
Just had my first big test in rest counting this past weekend with the municipal band. One piece began with at least 40 measures of rest, most of them in 5-measure phrases which didn't sound like complete phrases at all. And the rehearsal numbers were of little help -- entrances would come two or three measures after the numbers.
For the first time in ages I was actually counting out loud -- "ONE-two-three-four TWO-two-three-four..." That's the method that works for me. I'd also mark when certain entrances happen, but our "rehearsal" time was so brief I didn't get a chance.
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Author: William
Date: 2002-08-09 19:17
Famous Old College Bandmasters advice, "Account for Every beat in Every measure." And then, enter with confidence.
He also always said, "If you are going to make a mistake, make it loud with confidence so everyone will believe that You are right."
(transaltion--a correct entrance made timidly sounds like an error even when right.)
Another saying of His, "He who does not count, is of no account."
And, do not tap your foot or count out loud--but we all know that, right?????????????
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Author: David
Date: 2002-08-09 22:10
Being more used to a band, I find it hard to count with an orchestra. Way too many bars rest.
(Warning. Even if you don't tap your foot, you may be giving it away elsewhere. My wife says the orchestra looked hilarious backing a soloist. Fierce concentration all round as everyone mouthed "wun-two-free-faw, two-two-... etc. while trying to keep track of his rubatoness.)
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Author: Michael McC.
Date: 2002-08-10 02:08
I just always watch for the conductor's downbeats to count measures, that way, if he goes into a time signature that's not necessarily marked (from 2 to 1, for example) you'll be ready, instead of counting the beats, that confuses me sometimes.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-08-10 16:11
I used to wait for the first chair to nod but then he was replaced by an eighty year old.
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Author: Arnold the basset hornist
Date: 2002-08-12 07:58
The true art of counting is,
when you noticed you're currently counting the 21st beat (instead of the actual 'beat of measure'), you have enought practice to select a way, how to continue counting so you do not miss your solo.
If you want to confuse your neighbours, then <i>count downward</i> loud.
If you have to count 18 measures for your neighbour (who allways mis-counts) but you have to pause for 41 measures starting 2 maesures before - then imagine 'a picture of the count number for you' is flying around the conductor (in the way, you want the conductor to show the beats - not the way he really does) and for your neighbor count the measures with your fingers - 1 througt 5 'standard', 6 to 10 with your hand turned to the opposite direction.
I never tried to count for two neighbours and me ...
Arnold (the basset hornist)
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