 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-08-06 06:11
In trying to ascertain if there is a "standard setup" for concert band (military) I've discovered one important fact: there isn't one.
Also - as I've recently been asked to compose an orginal work for concert band I'm having a devil of a time deciding just what size to think about (not wanting to write for a specific group, hence making it more or less difficult when it comes to being played by more than one band).
The brass instruments - also haven't found a single website that will give me the range of the "odd ones" that I don't know (I can cope with horns, trumpets, cornets) any of the other members of the brass section are a puzzle - not to mention they all seem to play from the treble clef (except trombones?).
If anyone can shed any light for me, I'd appreciate it.
thanks
diz, sydney
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Author: HAT
Date: 2002-08-06 13:42
Diz, you've stumbled onto one of the things that most troubles me about the concert band or symphonic wind ensemble: 'Standard' instrumentation.
For some reason, if you write a band piece, you are expected to write a part for every instrument in the band, so that nobody has to sit there without playing (or some other reason).
So even if you don't want euphoniums or saxophones, or if you only want 2 trumpets instead of 5, you had better write for them anyway. Otherwise, the so called 'great' university bands won't play your work.
One would never see such requirements for an orchestral work.
It is one of the many reasons the concert band never fulfilled its (self promoted) promise to become the equal to the orchestra as a performing ensemble by the end of the 20th century.
Probably also the reason that so many fine composers either never wrote a work for band. And many who did contributed some of their least inspired writing (talking mostly about American composers. The Brits wrote some wonderful works, etc.).
In any case, there should be several excellent orchestration guides for the standard American concert band. These should give suggested ranges for the level of performers for which you are writing.
David Hattner, NYC
www.northbranchrecords.com
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Author: William
Date: 2002-08-06 15:02
Here is what most "school band" orchestrations include:
Trumpet/Cornet--two or three parts; in Bb
Horn--two, three parts common; in F; parts also published in Bb.
Trombone--two or three part; bass cleff
Baritone--one part; bass cleff/treble opt. part published
Tuba/Sousaphone--bass cleff; one part
Trumpet and cornet parts are usually written to be played by either instrument or a mix of both. However in more advanced compositions, there are often two separate trumpet parts in addition to a full, three part cornet section. Fluegel horns may also be added for color in the trumpet/cornet section in advanced composition (they are not normal school band instruments)
Horn parts (two part) are often doubled by the alto saxophones. In more advanced compostions, the horns have separate melodic and harnonic parts and may be expanded two four parts. Very nice sounds are possible. Four part horns may also be doubled with the alto and tenor sax parts for effect.
Trombone parts can be expanded to three or four parts in more advanced arrangements, but in average bands, two parts is the norm.
Baritone is usually one part and often doubled in the tenor sax/bassoon parts. However, two part baritone may be used in more advanced writting.
In many easy to moderate level band compositions, the tenor sax, bassoon, trombone and baritone lines are all doubled as one part with two part horn written also for the two part alto sax section.
Tuba is usually in BBb but often is also published in EEb for older band programs that still use those inwtruments. Octaves (split parts) are often writen.
Mellophones ("peckhorns") are obsolete in modern school bands.
Hope this helps a bit--lets not get started on percussion!!!
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Author: ClarinetQween
Date: 2002-08-06 17:14
We play stuff with 3 trumpet parts and 3 cornet parts, 4 horn parts (which is common).
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-08-06 18:53
With our band literature we have seen 6 Horn parts quite often (Which makes our Horn player really jump on his toes.)
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-08-06 23:53
GBK - thanks - very interesting and VERY helpful URL indeed.
GBK - question: which of the "heavy" brass use treble clef in band scores?
Others - thanks for your very valuable imput - it would seem that I need to write for a huge band and double up a lot of the parts (most annoying and not what my mental picture and tonal-scape had in mind - if you get my drift).
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-08-07 00:01
diz... I'm hardly a concert band expert, as I try to avoid listening to them, and haven't played in one since college (and don't plan on changing anytime soon).
If I remember correctly (others - please help) the Baritone Horn (Euphonium) can be written in either bass or treble clef.
The last concert band I directed was during my high school teaching days - a (relatively) distant memory I'm trying to block out...GBK
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-08-07 00:54
Um - yes, I'm not writing for a school or college band (thank goodness), it's for a professional military band - so the players should at least be able to play to a virtuoso level.
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-08-07 01:04
GBK - I'm not a huge fan of military/concert bands, although when I played in one (years ago) it was the one best in the country at the time and its music director (Vic Grieve) was qualified from the Royal College of Music in London so it was an excellent musical experience (thank goodness).
In order to rectify the void in my CD collection I purchased my first "military/concert" band disc yesterday (Fenell (sp?) and the Eastmaners playing Sousa). It's beautifully played, the music is fetching (somewhat) and there are some "groovey" noises coming from the clarinets (especially the effer and the bass). I know that I must now race out and buy ALL the other Sousa marches so I don't miss a beat ... I particularly like the (rarely heard) New Mexico March - complete with latin american percussion and harp(!!). Very odd - but nice. Also - Liberty Bell (should that really be Belle?) is very nice.
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Author: Brian
Date: 2002-08-07 21:12
I'm absolutely mortified at the way some of you trashed concert bands. That is where most of us...most of us "amateurs" as compared to you virtuosi or virtuosos or whatever you are calling yourselves...began our humble yet completely gratifying love affair with the clarinet.
Please don't make it seem like anyone here is any better than anyone else. We all love music and the clarinet so it shouldn't matter what kind of group we perform with.
Sincerely,
Brian
Proud member of my local community band
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-08-07 22:57
Brian...No offense meant, and I hope no offense was taken.
My opinion of concert bands (and concert band music) was strictly a personal one, and although I can certainly appreciate the effort of all the fine bands (pro and community) across the country, I just find it something that is difficult for me to listen to.
Eventhough I love the clarinet with passion, the sound of 15, 30 or 40 clarinets (divided into 3 parts) lacks appeal.
Probably scarred (and scared) by all of my years of teaching high school band...GBK
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-08-07 23:02
Brian - you make a fine point. Please don't critise others for NOT liking bands - you can't have your cake and eat it ...
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-08-08 03:13
I'm just waiting for someone to say they hate orchestra...
I personally love both. (Though orchestra feels more my style.)
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Author: Mike Harrelson
Date: 2002-08-08 03:58
I find it interesting that several of the posts listed instruments in a wind ensemble but left out the clarinet.... on the clarinet bulletin board. I can understand leaving out flutes or oboes but this is the clarinet bulletin board... no? Is there anywhere left for a clarinet player to get a little respect? Must we all begin learning brass instruments to continue playing in wind symphonys? O.K., I'm through working the crowd now....
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Author: Mike Harrelson
Date: 2002-08-08 04:01
Yes, I know the question was about brass instrument setups... I just couldn't help myself....
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-08-08 04:23
No ... as Mike Harrelson's states:
"I know the question was about brass instrument setups"
As the author of this thread the questions was about Military/Concert band setups - which, as far as I'm aware have clarinets in them - hence my question. The fact that I then went on to ask clarification (including brass ranges) is/was secondary to the topic but an important part of it.
*hops of soap box* - for fear of busting it with his enormous weight.
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Author: Brian
Date: 2002-08-08 10:29
Sorry people...no offense was taken. Didn't mean to come across as a butthole. I truly admire those of you who have made music your life. If only I could turn back the hands of time...
But anyway I can't so again I am sorry for coming across so harshly. You are all good folks and I love reading your postings.
Brian
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Author: William
Date: 2002-08-08 13:40
GBK--I'm surprised that a former high school band director cannot recall that baritone (euphoneum) parts are usually published in bass and treble cleff. Or were your bands "lower brass challenged"??
Diz--Im sorry to disagree, but IMHO, you can do better than Sousa by Fennell and the Eastmann Wind Ensemble!!! They are good, but really only college level efforts. If you want truely fine examples of Wind Ensemble music in your CD collection, try recordings by the Neatherlands Wind Ensemble or the US Marine Band (the Presidents Own). I also apologize for my lengthy earlier posting--jus trying to help. Remember, however, that the more difficult--virtuosic--your composition is, the less marketable it will be. I was addressing scoring practicies for public school level compositions. Also, keep in mind (and pen)that publishers put restrictions and demands on arrangers to enhance the marketability of compositions that are published for sale--such as doubled parts for ensembles that may lack certain instruments like oboes, horns or bassoons. Good Luck!!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-08-08 21:12
William...Actually I was being a little facetious when I said I cannot remember the notation for the Baritone Horn. I actually remember it all too well.
Eventhough our bands were a bit "lower brass challenged" (due to a weak feeder system) we had a few outstanding Euphonium players. One, in particular, eventually became a very successful trial attorney, and another became an editor for a major publishing house.
Their success must have had something to do with the fact that they never had to fuss with a reed...GBK
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Author: chuck
Date: 2002-08-09 00:57
Diz: I am just returned from a reunion of US Navy Band members and would suggest that standard instrumentation will vary with the wishes of the current conductor. Can't speak for any of the others but you might ask the Public Affairs Officer at the Navy Band what their current configuration is for the Concert Band. Also, on tour, they would be using a smaller group of about 50 instrumentalists. The web site is http://www.navyband.navy.mil. Chuck
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Author: David
Date: 2002-08-09 22:39
Trombones usually come with parts in bass and treble clef. (Also, if you're short on bassoons, bari saxes can read the bass part as if it was in treble + 3#
(And check out the UK military bands. The RAF are top notch.)
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