 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-08-06 22:34
I made the great assumption that Buffet had standardized the hole spacing on all their thumb rests. Would anyone who knows care to comment on the proper drill and tap to use for Buffet thumb rest screws? I know they are smaller than the ones I've already purchased from Ferrees. I also discovered that the Buffet screws are not self-tapping and that seems unusual since the wood is not that difficult to drill.
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-08-06 22:43
I've never tapped a thumb rest screw in all my years of repair work. Usually, they go in just fine. Some techs heat the end of the screw to aid it to thread into the body. I think it is a #54 drill....but I always measure the thread body before I drill new pilot holes anyway. I think Ferrees does sell a wood tap for their screws, but as stated above, I've never use it. Now, your assumption of "standardized" holes is somewhat correct. A LeBlanc thumb rest has different hole spacing than Selmer/Buffet/Yamaha, etc, but if it is a Buffet thumb rest it should have the same spacing <b>IF</b> it is for the same model.
jbutler
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Author: Spence
Date: 2002-08-07 02:54
I also have never used a tap for thumb rest holes in all the years that I have been repairing. If you have to drill a new pilot hole, just be careful and don't go to deep. If you happen to make the holes to large, you can always use epoxy glue to reset the screws. They are not hard to do and you should not have all that much trouble
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-08-07 12:36
Thanks Spence and jbutler..I can imagine that heating the screw might aid insertion in "plastic" but don't see how it would help with a wood body. The thumb rests I'm working with are the Buffet adjustable type and are to replace stationary tr's in Buffet horns.
The spacing is a bit wider than the existing holes so I used one hole, filled the other and am preparing a new hole. Perhaps I just need to make the hole a tad larger. Thanks again...
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-08-07 12:52
I've always tapped. I've made the odd tap from the screws themselves, brazing them to a shaft and cutting makeshift flutes.
However I think the heat method is possibly just as valid. A tap of the incorrect pitch is certainly not a good idea as it throws all the strain on one thread at a time.
I don't go for forcing screws in without tapping or heat. In my view, if they are tight enough to hold well then the heads will probably break off while screwing them in.
I'm not sure for Buffet without having one here to measure, but these screws are typically 1.8 to 2.1 mm diameter with a pitch of 0.6 mm, occasionally 0.65 mm.
Neither of these are standard metric threads. Nor would they be stndard in US sizes.... A 1-64 thread is 1.85 mm diameter, but is too fine. It would have to be 1-42 to approximate a metric 1.85 x 0.6.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-08-07 21:27
Gordon, you're a truly innovative machinist...thanks for the hints.
Maybe I'll use a different screw.Bob
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-08-08 01:57
Bob,
I use the self tapping wood screws from Allied, hence I really don't need to tap or heat. If a screw is a little wobbled out I use the oversize thumb rest screws they sell.
Now the heat issue is valid in wood. We techs heat the ends of our pinning rods all the time to aid in the insertion. I know they go in a lot better when hot. On the flip side I know techs who pin without heat. I've done it both ways and found that the heat does work when pinning. I assume, therefore it would also work when putting in thumb rest screws.
jbutler
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-08-08 13:20
An excellent, slightly longer, slightly larger diameter screw fitting most clarinets when threads are a bit stripped is Yamaha's "Valve Guide Screw" for Flugel Horn. They are 2 x 0.6 mm and 5 mm long (including the countersink). Another larger one is that used on Selmer Paris Bass Clarinet. 2.1 x 0.6 mm and 5.6 mm long.
BTW typical timber wall thickness is about 0.75 mm.
Sometimes the countersinking of the thumb rest can be deepened so the crews grip further into the timber. The ideal tool is a stone setting burr (used by jewelers, and only a dollar or two) of a diameter suitable for the diameter of the head of the screw.
I don't use heat for pinning. Indeed I think there is probably little heat left in the 'boring' end of a pin by the time it has travelled half way through its hole. However I do grind flutes into the boring end of each pin, to make it like a tap.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-08-08 14:18
Many thanks to all of you for sharing your valuable experience.
To jbutler: I'm not familiar with Allied..must be UK?
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-08-08 22:29
Bob,
Allied Supply is in Elkhorn, WI. It was founded by Don Getzen (of Getzen trumpet fame). Yes, manufacture of the Getzen and DEG (Don E. Getzen) and Dynasty brass (Marching brass instruments). I believe his son is now operating the company. One of the largest in the US. Unlike Ferree's however, they do not sell to the general public. (I think,probably, they do more sales volume than Ferrees.) You would have to send them a copy of your business license and tax/resale documentation. The phone number is: 800-281-8100 for customer service.
jbutler
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-08-09 14:46
Again, thanks to all for taking the time and providing valuable tips. I especially admire Gordon's grinding flutes on the crack wire.
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