 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Martin
Date: 2002-08-06 02:20
I keep the reeds in my playing rotation in a reed case with a glass surface. The question I have is aboout reeds that are works in progress. Is it harmful to leave them on a glass table over a period of a few days or should they also be kept in a case?
thanks in advance,
Martin Shapiro
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Karel
Date: 2002-08-06 03:10
Larry Guy in his book recommends drying reeds that are being broken in on a flat (?glass) surface with the flat of the reed UP. Finished reeds he seems to keep in a case or a reedholder. Karel.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2002-08-06 03:29
It sounds like a whole lot of stuffing around to me. I would really like to know how much time is wasted with "breaking in" reeds. A professional player doesn't have enough time to be that precious about reeds. Wet them and blow them and when tey go dead throw them away.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-08-06 03:43
Mark Pinner wrote:
>
> A professional player doesn't have enough
> time to be that precious about reeds.
I know a good many pros who <b>do</b> carefully break in reeds that show promise.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Karel
Date: 2002-08-06 04:00
Mark Pinner is, I think, a bit wide of the mark. Larry Guy and others who have written books on breaking in reeds were all professionals. I know many amateurs who take the trouble to break in reeds, just as I know players who can't be bothered. I wonder which are the losers? I personally feel that a few minutes a day spent on preparing a reed is worth the extra pleasure that reed provides for many hours in return. Karel.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wes
Date: 2002-08-06 04:18
If one takes a little time to prepare commercial reeds for use, one might find that a whole box of V12s are fine, not just a few. One can't expect all factory made reeds to play consistently and well out of the box. Good luck!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2002-08-06 04:54
".... One can't expect all factory made reeds to play consistently and well out of the box..."
True, but at their current (rising) prices one should expect to find a relatively high quality cane in the leading professional reed manufacturer.
More than just a few people(pros and amateurs) have now noticed the obvious decline in Vandoren cane quality:
http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=81993&t=81949
That, combined with the new "flat tip" design have driven some of us to seek out that "new kid on the block" named Mr. Gonzalez...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob
Date: 2002-08-06 12:46
I don't find it unusual or inconsistent for different people to have different views about reeds....or religion....or...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob
Date: 2002-08-06 12:57
>with the flat of the reed UP>
Only in Australia or NZ
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2002-08-06 12:58
Reeds change over time and so do the conditions (our embouchure, temperature, humidity, the reed itself changes configuration once played, wet and dryed, etc. ad infinitum). I have never been very good about adjusting reeds - I should learn and be better, but I find that drying on a flat surface does help subsequent playing.
Using glass provides the ideal flat surface but also an moisture impermeable surface such that more moisture escapes from the surface not in contact with the glass. A second piece of glass applied with pressure to the reed tip area results in more even drying but the area just back of the tip is concave and only the very tip is flattened and further back a smaller area is in contact with the second piece of glass. All of this said, looking at the tips under a microscope indicates a slight but noticible concavitgy of the tip after drying. I have recently been using a special kind of limestone (rock) that has been milled flat and smooth and a second piece of frosted glass (allows more water vapor to escape)on the top. This setup yields dry reeds in a hurry (because the limestone absorbs moisture - e.g. the drink coasters)and a completely flat tip.
Whether the above machinations are at all useful in prolonging the useful life of the reed, the playability of the reed, or other subjective reed criteria - I do not have a clue - but it gives me a good plecibo feeling about drying reeds properly.
The Doctor
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Karel
Date: 2002-08-06 15:21
Chicago Bob, Prof.Larry Guy is an American (The Julliard School of Music), and he says on page 21 of his book that after working on a reed "to let them sit for at least 24 hours lying upside-down (with the table of the reed up) on a flat surface before doing any additional playing." I have been doing that, but are you saying that in Australia I should have been doing the opposite?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark S.
Date: 2002-08-06 15:26
The old man who put the good reeds in the Vandoren boxes must have died years ago. That being said, they are as organic as our clarinets, and subject to heat, humidity, air pressure, your chapstick, etc. Look at them edge-on, and you see they are just bundles of tiny cellulose tubes stuck together. I've found V12s usually play great out of the box, and then stink for about another two weeks until they break in.
The advantage to breaking in the reeds (not to mention all the other voodoo we do with knives, rush, etc.) is stabilizing them for performance. I personally cannot get through a gig with any sanity left if my reeds are changing constantly. Once they normalize, you can (usually) predict which ones will play in each type of environment (hot/cold, humid/dry, high tide/low tide), and they'll more or less behave through a whole piece.
And yes GBK, all hail Gonzales!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ken
Date: 2002-08-06 20:10
I don't know about anyone else but I see a butterfly, not a bat..hehe. <;-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2002-08-06 20:29
The above photo reminds me of the "sausage principle":
"People who love sausage and respect the law should never watch either one being made." ...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Todd W.
Date: 2002-08-06 20:39
Karel --
I believe Chicago Bob was joking. Of course when we United Staters use Vintage (Australia) reeds we have to stand on our head while waiting for our new reeds to dry.
Todd W.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob
Date: 2002-08-06 21:52
Karel and Todd..my impression is that most people who put reeds on something flat to dry them place the flat side onto the flat surface. If one puts the "lip side" on the flat surface(as Larry's quote seems to read) I don't see the logic since the vibrating part of the reed is unsupported. My further impression is that either there is a typo in Larry's paper or he didn't say what he meant. I think that the ancients who believed the world was flat thought that there were places where people walked upside down....i.e. in Austrailia. No offense to our southern hemisphere friends. Doc's comments always have merit and I myself use a flat piece of wood rather than plastic or glass due to its better absorbency. But if the wood warps then so does the reed.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Karel
Date: 2002-08-07 03:38
Bob, the "upside-down" instruction applies only during Larry's breaking in period. Finished reeds he stores flat surface down; I thought I made that clear in the original post.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2002-08-07 17:11
To ken (from Virginia Beach):
Thanks for the cd's you sent to me. However, I misplaced you email address.
Write me - so I can thank you more directly...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Todd W.
Date: 2002-08-07 17:20
Bob --
Last night I reviewed Larry Guy's book/pamphlet and am sure that the "drying them upside down" business is not a typo. It's clearly a part of his extensive (10 days) breaking in routine. As Karel points out, it's only during the breaking in period that this is done. (The first 5 days the reeds are dried upside down, after that they are put in a standard reed case.) Getting in touch with Larry Guy to find out the rationale behind it is on my (too long) list of things to do. It does seem counterintuitive to keeping the reed back flat, but perhaps he feels that the back dries more quickly and uniformly that way while it's still in its unbroken-in/unsealed state.
Todd W.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob
Date: 2002-08-07 21:43
Todd..don't know how you could be sure its not a typo. The way I read it is you let the reeds sit while you lie upside down on a flat surface. I place my reeds flat side down whether I'm playing on them or storing them but I could be doing it wrong.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Dow
Date: 2002-08-08 12:45
That picture looks like a typical winter day in Canada!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Karel
Date: 2002-08-08 13:51
Bob, my quote was verbatim from Larry's book. I don't think that the phrase "upside-down" and repeated "with the table of the reed up" can possibly be a typo twice i different words. That is not to say that your way does not work - just that a teacher of others recommends something else.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob
Date: 2002-08-08 14:24
Mark C wrote
<This is what we have to work with (Courtesy of Don Casadonte
Mark: fantastic micro. I assume it's longitudinal section. Is additional info available?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-08-08 17:48
Bob wrote:
> Mark: fantastic micro. I assume it's longitudinal section. Is
> additional info available?
Don Casadonte did his doctoral thesis on reed characteristics (FE analysis, vibration modes, stiffness characteristics under different environmental conditions, etc.). He's (slowly ;^( ) preparing it for publication here, including photographs, animations, charts, etc.
But I expect it will be a couple of years before Don completes the work.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2002-10-02 13:26
test:
<img src="http://www.bar-a.com/images/Archives/seinfeld/assman.jpg" width="75" height="35">
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
