 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Patrick Scully
Date: 2002-07-30 11:31
The instruments we bass clarinet players play tend to get longer and more expensive as we get older and progress musically. But should this progression necessarily lead to a professional-level bass clarinet to low C? Or would the purchase of a contra clarinet make more sense in many cases? I will argue here that players with a primary focus on the bass clarinet should at least consider a contra clarinet (in Eb or BBb) in place of a low C bass clarinet.
A typical pattern is to start with a school-owned plastic Bundy, move to a new or used wooden Buffet, Leblanc, or Selmer to low Eb,
sometimes leading eventually to the purchase of a new low C
instrument from one of these makers. Doublers tend to stay with the
less costly low Eb instruments, whereas many of those who make the
bass clarinet their primary instrument dream of owning a low C
instrument and eventually scrape together the substantial price of a new one.
I'd like to suggest what I think might be a musically superior,
technically more interesting, and very cost effective alternative to a new low C bass clarinet: to keep your standard bass clarinet to low Eb, and to purchase a new or used contrabass clarinet to use not only for the occasional bass clarinet part that requires the extended range, but to open up the entire repertoire of contrabass clarinet parts (mostly for concert band) and to cue parts the contrabass clarinets can tackle as well as or better than the bass clarinet: bassoon, contrabassoon, baritone saxophone, bass saxophone, contrabass saxophone, double bass, bass guitar, and tuba.
Let's explore in a little more detail why the bass clarinet player
should buy a contrabass clarinet when he is ready for the extended
range, and then I'll discuss how to choose your first contrabass
clarinet and where to get one.
Not all bass clarinet players, of course, will share the conclusions that I've reached here...that's to be expected, because we're a diverse group. To help you assess the applicability of the recommendations here to your own situation, it will help you to know that I am not a full-time professional musician. However, I spend 10-20 hours per week in practice, rehearsal, performance, arranging, and composition activities -- and occasionally, earn a little money from these (which goes to charities, mostly). I play contra clarinets whenever I can: on my Eb contrabass, I'm the "bassoonist" in a woodwind quintet. I also play in reed and clarinet choirs as well as concert bands. My orientation to wind ensembles is shared, according to a recent survey on Yahoo, by the majority of bass (and contra) clarinet players.
Let's contine, now, to the discussion of why you, the bass clarinet player (especially with a wind ensemble or popular music orientation) should consider buying a contra clarinet to add to your musical opportunity and enjoyment.
Indeed, the most important reasons the advancing bass clarinet player should buy a contra clarinet instead of a low C bass clarinet are musical and performance/technical. Consider:
RANGE
It is true that the low C bass clarinet opens up alot of literature
to the serious bass clarinetist (it has the same lowest note as the
bassoon, the concert Bb1, and may well have been developed to enable the bass clarinet to cue or even substitute for bassoons in various ensembles, including the woodwind quintet).
However, the least expensive contrabass clarinet (the straight Eb
contra, to low written Eb) can play the concert Gb below the Bb of
the low C bass clarinet and the bassoon. The straight Eb contrabass
clarinet can thus tackle any part written for the bass saxophone as
well (lowest note on the bass sax is concert Ab1); indeed, the ranges of the bass and baritone saxophones lie entirely within the range of the straignt Eb contrabass clarinet.
The Leblanc paperclip Eb contrabass clarinet is extended to low
written C (the only Eb contra having the low C); this note
corresponds to Eb1, opening up much of the tuba, bass guitar, and
double bass literature. As well, the Leblanc Eb paperclip has a very accessible altissimo range of 1 1/2 octaves, making the highest notes of the bassoon, the low altissimo of the bass clarinet, and the entire upper range of the tenor saxophone playable.
The BBb contrabass clarinet extends the range down even further.
While the intermediate/doubler models of the BBb play the low written Eb (concert Db1, just one major second below the Leblanc Eb
paperclip), the professional models from Selmer, Leblanc, and
Ripamonti are extended to low written C, one octave below the
extended bass clarinet, and capable of playing the lowest note (Bb0) of the standard contrabassoon. The BBb contrabass clarinet can play bass clarinet parts by playing them an octave higher than written, which is an easy sightreading task; unfortunately, all BBb
contrabasses have difficulty with the lowest notes of the altissimo
(the Db, D, Eb, and E), so the playing of any bass clarinet part that has notes higher than the bridge C is very tricky.
Overall, for the advancing or doubling bass clarinetist, the Eb
contrabass clarinets may be the best choice on the basis of range.
They provide superior downward range in comparison with the low C
bass clarinet, yet can still play the great majority of bass clarinet parts at unison withont much difficulty. The Eb Leblanc paperclip rovides the greatest range and has some other advantages (see below), but any Eb contrabass clarinet in good condition will give the bass clarinetist more power and flexibility than a low C bass clarinet.
TECHNICAL PLAYING
TRANSPOSING/SIGHT READING -- Because the Eb contrabass clarinet
(or "contra alto") is a transposing instrument in Eb, non-transposing bass clef parts (including those written for bassoon) are very easy to sight read: simply play as if the part were a transposing part written in the treble clef, but add three sharps (or delete three flats) from the key signature.
One of the important reasons to own a contrabass clarinet (or a low C bass clarinet) is to be able to play bassoon parts. In this service, the Eb contrabass clarinet has the edge over the both the low C bass clarinet and the BBb contrabass clarinet. The entire range of the bassoon lies within the range of the standard Eb contrabass clarinet; professional instruments should accommodate the altissimo of the bassoon quite well (this has been my experiance on the Leblanc paperclip).
When playing bass clarinet parts at unison, the BBb has
the sight reading advantage; however, many bass clarinet parts go
higher than the comfortable range of the BBb contrabass. The bass
clarinettist would be advised to simply learn how to sightread bass
clarinet parts on his Eb contrabass clarinet.
On the other hand, the BBb is the best choice for the reading of bass saxophone parts seen in concert band and popular music; it is the only choice for reading contrabassoon parts. In wind and popular ensemble music, the contrabassoon is rarely used. However, bass saxophone parts are not uncommon in concert band arrangements (they're seen in about 20% of the stuff I get to play), and about half the time, the BBb contrabass clarinet and bass saxophone literally share a part, sometimes playing in octaves.
These considerations led me to wish for both Eb and BBb contrabass clarinets...a wish that I was lucky enough to get fullfilled about a year ago.
TIMBRE/TONE QUALITY
The Bb bass clarinet, the Eb contrabass clarinet, and the BBb
contrabass clarinet are distinct instruments, whose timbres can be
distinguished (they differ in technical playing as well).
The bass clarinet in the lowest notes of the extended range may lack the warmth, richness, and volumne of the same notes played on a contra; this may be related to the smaller bore of the bass clarinet. When playing notes equivalent to bass clarinet bridge
notes and lower clarion, the Eb contrabass clarinet (and Selmer model 41 BBb contrabass) sounds very much like a bass clarinet played in the chaulumeau, whereas the BBb in this range has a singing quality like a saxophone (Leblanc metal).
Thus the bass clarinettist who adds a contra to his collection adds
timbral flexibility and range to his clarinet playing not provided by the low C extension. He also adds an instrument far more capable of holding its own, volume-wise, against a similarly voiced saxophone than the bass clarinet (this is especially true of the Leblanc metal contras).
COST EFFECTIVENESS
What about cost? Aren't contrabass clarinets alot more expensive
than bass clarinets -- even those extended to low C? Actually, the
answers are not so clear cut. When the additional capability of the
contra and the prices and availability of instruments in the second-
hand market are taken into account, the contras will often have the
edge in bang for the buck over the low c bass clarinets.
Contrabass clarinets are also, by far, the least expensive and arguably the most capable low bass woodwinds. While the contrabassoon and bass and contrabass saxophones are beautiful instruments, their underutilization in music is largely due to their great cost (the contrabass saxophone and contrabassoon can be purchased new, but the cost is high -- between $30,000 and $40,000). The contrabass clarinets are themselves underused, but are certainly far more common and also less expensive. (In Japan and the west, contra clarinets are often available even in middle school band classes). The finest professional BBb contrabass clarinets can be purchased for approximately #12,000 - $14,000 (Selmer, Leblanc and Ripamonti); used, these largest of the contrabass clarinets in fine condition are the price of a new baritone saxophone.
The advancing bass clarinet player, in fact, may find that he can obtain a contra to add to his collection for much less than the cost of a new low c bass clarinet. Consider these two scenarios:
In the first one, we purchase a new low C bass clarinet from Buffet, Selmer, Leblanc, or Yamaha. This instrument will cost between $4,000 and $6,000 with a typical discount to the list price. Let's assume a purchase price of $5,000.
In the second scenario, we purchase a used late model professional
bass clarinet to low Eb and a used Eb contrabass clarinet (the
Leblanc paperclip, extended to low c). A fine standard bass clarinet in wood with double automatic octave (the latter is essential) should run about $1,000-1,500; the Leblanc Eb paperclip in fine playing and appearance condition will run $2,500 to $3,500. Let's assume purchase prices of $1,500 and $3,000 respectively, for a total of $4,500.
Some readers will object to this comparison right away, because I'm
comparing a new instrument (the low C bass clarinet) with two used
instruments. But there are two good reasons I'm doing this. First,
at present, used low C bass clarinets are virtually impossible to
find. I'd like to limit my discussion to practical solutions.
Second, Leblanc metal contras are readily available in the used
market, and are extremely durable, so even well-used school
instruments are well worth considering for the right price.
Okay, now let's take a look at the bass clarinettist who bought the
Eb contra instead of the low C bass clarinet. Where did he/she win
or lose?
On price, the contra buyer came out a somewhat ahead of the game,
saving $500 over the price of a new low C bass clarinet. Musically
and technically, he/she is way ahead. Unlike the owner of the low C
bass clarinet, our contra buyer can play parts written for the contra alto clarinet, bass saxophone, the string basses, and most tuba, BBb contrabass clarinet, and Eb contrabass saxophone parts. He also gets an impressive instrument with a sound all its own, and volume to keep up with the saxophones.
Are there any downsides for the contra owner? A few minor ones.
Unlike the low C bass clarinet owner, the contra owner will probably expend a few more calories carting his two horns around to rehearsals and gigs. He will spend more money on reeds -- Vandoren contrabass clarinet reeds (preferred for the Leblanc paperclips) run about $5.00 apiece, though they do last quite a while. When time comes for a repad or an overhaul, the contra services will be more costly, though not greatly so (the low C bass clarinet is a more costly service than the standard bass clarinet).
For me, dear colleagues, these are very minor annoyances given the
advantages and pleasures of owning and playing the contrabass clarinet. Who knows, you just might decide to specialize on the contra, like me and quite a few others who have caught the "contrabass" bug.
Contrabass clarinets are catching on, and their advantages and pleasures are becoming better known. Grant Green with his contrabass.com site, and many others here on Sneezy, have certainly helped give these instruments much more visibility in the last five years than they had in the preceeding 25 years. I think contra clarinets will have an ever expanding "native" repertoire. They represent, as well, not just a substitute for the bassoon, contrabassoon, bass saxophone, and contrabass saxophone, when those instruments are not available, but contra clarinets are a musical alternative to them, with a potential that has jut begun to be explored.
Regards,
Patrick Scully
Eb and BBb Contrabass Clarinet
(Reprinted with edits from a post to Yahoo Bass Clarinet)
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Author: Ted Donaldson
Date: 2002-07-30 11:48
Oh yeah, I'm just gonna shell out 12-20k dollars just so I can play lower than I'll ever need to. I mean, if you are going to play bass in an orchestra, the lowest note you'll see is low c. Technically, but not technically, The bass and BBb bass have the same range, low C to really really really high c, one just can't go as "low" as the other one.
Also, Since most (if not all) "Pro" bass clarinets are low c, then how are we supposed to make a pro clarinet out of a low Eb. The low c's have all kinds of bells and wistles, like a double vented register key!
I may be 13, but I have established a love for bass and higher, not bass and lower, if you know what I mean.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-07-30 14:48
Patrick -
I played a Selmer Eb contra and a Leblanc paperclip BBb contra to low C in the West Point Band, and I now own one of each.
The Selmer Eb has a bass clarinet quality. On equivalent notes, it's basically the same sound as a low-C bass, though the contra has a little easier production due to the larger bore. Also, the Selmer is quite easy to play. Anything you can play on a bass clarinet, you can play on the Selmer Eb. Leblanc Eb contras have a much larger bore.
However, even the Selmer Eb is not a substitute for the bass clarinet.
First, Selmer and Leblanc Eb contras don't have a pad directly under the left index finger, so you can't put a bass clarinet style pierced pad on the key, and altissimo playing is very tricky. I explored with Steve Fox the possibility of putting a split key (like the English horn mechanism) on my Selmer, but he didn't think it would work well. Buffet's catalog says its Eb contras have this pierced pad, but I've never seen the instrument.
Second, the Selmer tone bleaches out at the top of the clarion. It's really designed to stay in the low register and provide a foundation for the section. Of course, it's possible to play it into the stratosphere, as players like Terje Lerstadt have proved, but that's not its function in a band or clarinet choir.
This goes double for the Leblanc Eb, since the larger bore makes it even harder to play up high.
Strangely, my Leblanc BBb goes up to clarion high C quite easily, with no loss in tone quality. However, its very large bore (particularly if you use the older, wider mouthpiece) limits its response speed and gives it a true "contra" tone. Also, it's missing all but one of the trill keys for the left index finger, including the throat F# key, which creates serious problems in technical passages. Also, altissimo is even more of a problem than on the Eb.
I agree that a complete clarinet section requires at least one contra, and under the right circumstances, it can sound wonderful on its own. For example, Ella Fitzgerald's George Gershwin Songbook has some spectacularly good contra playing on several tracks.
The Eb contra is no substitute for the low-C bass, however. In an orchestra, the conductor will want a part played on the instrument it was written for, and there is enough difference in color and tessitura that parts just won't sound the same on Eb contra as on bass. Low-C bass clarinets are made only as top-of-the-line models, and the current Buffet, Selmer and Yamaha low-C basses play and sound very good on the extended notes.
Given the very high retail prices for new non-plastic contras ($10 - $20,000), you're pretty much limited to used instruments, almost all of which come out of schools and have been severely abused. (My Selmer Eb needed over 30 pins.) Therefore, it's a crapshoot, and anything you find will need significant restoration.
Finally, don't underestimate the weight and inconvenience of the extra cases. Each of my contras in its case weighs 30+ pounds, and the Eb case is even bigger than the BBb. Take along a bass (even one without a low-C extension) and you need a rolling cart. It's enough to make you switch to piccolo.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: William
Date: 2002-07-30 15:30
Yes, Ken, it would be enough to make me even consider switching to the trombone--(avoiding "piccolo ear" and reed problems). And, in addition to the weight of the instruments and their cases, how about adding in the weight of the instrument stands as well--or were you just going to lay them all over the stage for the string players to trample (inadvertantly, of course).
I love playing my new Buffet Prestige low C bass clarinet. But if I have to play a doubler's chair, I prefer the smaller--more easily transported--instruments. FYI--I have this great Blayman stand that I "modified" to hold my A, Bb, C and Eb clarinets (in those rare cases when all four are needed). It's the commercial "two clarinet" stand in which are drilled two extra holes for the additional (non-Blayman) pegs. The result, a nice little compact multi-instrument stand that is quite stable and secure from the always present danger of wandering (and chair shifting) other musicians.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2002-07-30 16:58
What a great discussion! In the Los Angeles area, you are not considered a bass clarinet player unless you have the low C instrument, regardless of whether you need it or not. It's part of the culture.
One player I know has an old Conn bass clarinet to low E that sounds very good. He uses it in bands as the case for it is really tiny and the band music hardly ever has a low Eb or lower. He leaves his low C Buffet at home when he can.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-07-30 17:24
As usual, Ken Shaw's got it right! I play bass clarinet (low-Eb model) and a Buescher (identical to Bundy) EEb contra-alto, both of them regularly, and it's true that the two instruments have very similar tone colors in the low and middle registers (thus the EEb contra would be a viable substitute, in a pinch, for a low-C bass clarinet). I personally like the sound of my contra in its upper register (clarion, that is) but I fully agree that the altissimo is difficult at best. Last year I experimented with adding a 'sliver' key just below the l.h. index finger pad cup, operating its own register vent, as a substitute for the altissimo 'half-hole' vent (pierced pad) which indeed doesn't exist on the contra. I tried a bunch of different combinations of vent tube location, length, and diameter, but never was able to get much of an improvement in altissimo response, so I eventually removed my extra keywork and the register tube (plugging all the holes in the body, of course). By the way, although I'm generally not a fan of Bundy instruments, I have to say I'm very pleased with the Bundy/Buescher contras --- they have basically identical bores and keywork as the beautiful Selmer-Paris rosewood contra-alto, but for about 1/5 the price (or less) --- I got mine on eBay for $800, and it needed very little work to get it into good playing shape. One of the few bargains in the low-clarinet world!
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Author: ClarinetQween
Date: 2002-07-30 17:59
I personally love playing my Buffet Prestige Bass clarinet hat goes down to low c. It was quite pricy, but well worth it. I plays like an absolute dream. Happy hunting and have a nice day!
-ClarinetQween
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Author: Patrick Scully
Date: 2002-07-30 18:27
Thanks, all, for the great discussion!
The comments by Ken and Dave regarding the altissimo on the Eb contrabass clarinet establish, at least to me, that the technical playability differences among the brands of contra clarinet can be as great or greater than differences between, say, a given Eb contra and a Bb bass clarinet. Case in point: the difficult altissimo Ken and Dave observed for the Selmer-type contra altos (including the Bundy), which made them consider customizing their instruments. On the Leblanc paperclip Eb contrabass clarinet (model 50), however, the altissimo is more playable than on some bass clarinets I've played...provided proper "contra" fingerings are used (special or open fingerings are essential for D, D# and E). You may wonder if I have an unusual or tricked out horn, but this is not the case. Further, I have played two different Leblanc paperclip contra altos, 300 serials apart, with the same excellent altissimo. My observation agrees with Ken and Dave, however, if we talk about the Leblanc BBb paperclip contrabass clarinet.
My experience with my Leblanc Eb contrabass clarinet in the altissimo has been such that the woodwind quintet in which I'm a member is undergoing a transformation from a group in which the Eb contrabass clarinet "substituted" for the bassoon to one in which the contra clarinet has become a viable alternative to it, creating a wonderful and different blend of textures for the quintet format.
I hope that Ken, Dave, or others here can experiment with the metal Leblanc Eb contrabass clarinets and report back on their experiences in the altissimo. Given that the Eb and BBb Leblanc paperclips have quite different double octave mechanisms, I doubt my experience is due to some anatomical or setup particularity. Certainly, it is not due to my extreme accomplishment in clarinet technique!
In any event, if my positive experience with the Leblanc altissimo is noted by others, this should put some pressure on all manufacturers (Leblanc included, because their BBb has trouble with altissimo) to improve their instruments -- and there is very little such consumer pressure now because the market is pretty small. My gut tells me that if we players demand a better altissimo, we will get it (probably via a triple octave mechanism like the oboe on the pro-model horns).
In reply to Ted, there is no question that it would not make sense for you to "shell out 10k-12k" to play lower than you would need to. My post clearly recommends a different approach. If your proclivity is to play higher, you'll be spending money on the other end of the clarinet continuum, perhaps. But if you want to play lower, then my recommendation is to let the institutions spend the big bucks on new instruments, and to buy durable used instruments like the metal Leblancs. Very fine restored paperclips are available for between $3.5K (Eb) and $5K (BBb); cut those prices in half if you're willing to take an instrument in need of an overhaul (but possibly playable).
By the way, as tempting as the rosewood contras by Selmer and Ripamonti might be, I would avoid them as used instruments unless you really know what you're doing. They're not as durable as the metal Leblancs -- cracking is a big problem, and the expansion and contraction of the wood also loosens the keywork over time. If you are one of those people for whom "$10K-$12K" is not a big issue, you should buy a new Selmer model 41 if you lust for the wood (who could blame you -- the rosewoods are breathtaking). Just take special care of it, keeping it the right humidity, etc. I posted a picture of one of these beauties on the bass clarinet group on Yahoo...will send one if interested.
Regards,
Patrick
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Author: Willie
Date: 2002-07-31 06:47
I was lucky to find a prestine Leblanc EEb contra that needed a better mouthpiece and a couple keys adjusted. Thanks to help from folks on sneezy like Ken and Dave, I was able to do this myself and now have a good blowing horn. I still have some trouble getting anything out of the altissimo, but that may be to the fact I don't have any fingerings for it and I have to experiment. I think when I get a new mouthpiece from Clark Fobes, it may be easier. I can only compare it with some plastic models I tried and I must confess I like the booming tone and power of the Leblanc better. After Testing a couple Vitos, I came away with the picture in my mind of a couple plastic cellos stuffed with laundry even though they were easier to blow. One was almost new and the other, just overhauled.
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Author: William Hughes
Date: 2002-07-31 15:36
Great discussion and thanks for your insights all. I hope there is a better appreciation of the low woodwinds. I am partial to the alto and contra alto. Playing the Le Blanc paperclip would be a wonderful experience. My straight Bundy contra sounds good (thanks again D.S.), but suffers, I think, from the mere fact that the bell sits on the floor. I feel as though I am playing into the backsides of the flute section, or whoever sits in front of me. This situation improves in the open seating of our clarinet choir. And, yes, the altissimo is very iffy on the contra and such parts are no doubt better covered elsewhere in the clarinet family.
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Author: Patrick Scully
Date: 2002-07-31 17:09
Wes,
I probably should have framed my question "Low C Bass Clarinet vs Contra" a little differently. The scheme I outlined, in which a bass clarinet player acquires (or keeps) a relatively inexpensive low Bb bass clarinet AND a relatively inexpensive (used) Eb contrabass (contra alto) clarinet, works best for people who spend most of their musical time in wind ensembles, where the biggest weakness from the ensemble standpoint tends to be the lack of low reeds. Concert bands are noticeably improved with the addition of even one contrabass clarinet, as I've been told by non-musician board members in two of the ensembles I've participated in.
While my recommendation to "go contra INSTEAD of low c bas" applies to the majority of non-student bass clarinet players (60% of whom participate in concert bands, versus fewer than 10% in symphony orchestras), it probably does not apply to the professional bass clarinet player who, as often as not, plays in symphony, studio, and pit orchestras. For many pro bass clarinet players, and for any other bass clarinet player who wants the best and most flexible bass clarinet available from his favorite manufacturer in spite of the expense, only a low C bass will do! To the pros and other bass clarinet players who focus on string ensembles, I would say "buy a contra...if you have money left over after you buy your low c bass clarinet".
Thanks for the great comments and discussion on ownership of low clarinets!
Patrick
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-07-31 17:15
Terje Lerstad's altissimo fingering charts for bass and contra are at http://home.online.no/~tlerstad/bass.html and http://home.online.no/~tlerstad/contrabass.html.
David S. -
Was the unsuccessful altissimo vent you added placed even with the left index finger lever or the pad it operates (higher up)? If it's the latter (which your description appears to say), it ought to work, but will probably need a lot of experimentation with size and placement. I wouldn't want to drill one hole after another through the body trying to get it right.
The Buescher Eb contra is a Bundy stencil. They're identical. Kalmen Opperman did many hours of work on a Buescher (and also on a Vito BBb), adjusting the bore, undercutting the tone holes and making them into probably the only professional quality contras in existence. He said it was so much work he'll never even think of doing it again. Most of the professional work in NYC is done on these instruments. My Selmer Eb and Leblanc BBb are decent, but not even close to Kal's transformations. I've read that Charles Bay has done similar work, and he has advertised Bundy or Vito bass clarinets with it. I'm not sure whether he currently does contras, and people have complained about very slow service on custom work from him.
Patrick -
I'm satisfied with my Selmer Eb and am not in the market for a Leblanc. If I had the money, I'd consider a Buffet. International Music in NYC has had a Leblanc Eb (to low E) in rough condition for sale for a while, but it would need major renovations to be playable.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-07-31 17:29
Ken,
My first attempt at an altissimo vent for the Buescher EEb contra was located exactly parallel to the pad operated by the l.h. index finger (which on a contra is operated by a lever rather than directly by the finger as on a bass clarinet, hence the lack of a simple open-hole vent). After varying the diameter and length of the vent tube at that location, I tried moving the vent location up and down the tube slightly, to no avail. There was a slight improvement in the altissimo response with the auxiliary vent, but nowhere near as much as I had hoped and not really enough to justify the extra bit of mechanism.
As for other work I did on my Buescher (aka Bundy) contra as well as William Hughes' Bundy, it involved some undercutting of toneholes and opening up all the throat toneholes on the top side to improve their response and raise their pitch (almost all the throat tones on these Bundy/Buescher contras are flat and stuffy-sounding). But looking at the big picture, the Bundy/Buescher plastic EEb contras are no more problematic than most bass clarinets, and are actually better than many basses. I've no doubt that Kal Opperman spent many hours working on his contras, but I'm used to that -- I don't think I've ever worked on any bass clarinet or contra clarinet that took me less than 24 hours minimum of solid work to get into what I consider to be acceptable playing condition, and certainly I've worked on a few instruments (such as my own Kohlert bass and most of the Malernes/Malerne-stencils I've sold) that took considerably more time to get right. I tell you what, Bb soprano clarinet overhauls are a walk in the park compared to the lower clarinets (and saxes)!
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Author: Patrick Scully
Date: 2002-07-31 18:31
All -
With respect to the altissimo of the Eb contra clarinet (the Leblanc Model 50 "paperclip), I will post my setup and fingerings here this evening (gotta run to my "day job" now). For now, I can say that the altissimo is quite accessible on this instrument (I've played two different ones), even given different reed strengths, though there is a bit less response with the WWandBW mouthpiece than there is with the Charles Fobes "San Francisco" piece. There are so many variables here, but if we all use the same setups, fingerings, and instruments, we can see the contra altissimo picture a bit more clearly.
I agree, though, that overall the altissimo should not be scored for the contrabass clarinets without octave-lower ossias, unless the specific musician/instrument is known...and until the altissimo range is improved on the next generation of contra clarinets by the manufacturers.
Ken -
If I had a Selmer Eb contrabass (contra alto) clarinet that I was happy with, I wouldn't be in the market for another Eb contra either -- Leblanc or Buffet. The Selmers are beautiful to look at, and more importantly, to listen to.
Notwithstanding, I have no plans to sell my own Leblanc Eb, in case I gave you that impression! It was just restored by Rance Kay -- it is a joy for me to play, and it is my "main" instrument especially in the small ensembles.
If I had a Selmer, however, and it was close to the end of its service life, I too would be interested in play testing that very interesting new Buffet Eb contrabass clarinet. Stylistically, it is much like the Selmer, but I think there might be some updates and improvements...
Ken, I'm sure you're aware of this, but for the benefit of the group, I'll note that the new Buffet has a half-hole vent (LH1) much like the bass clarinet. This COULD improve altissimo response, but I would definitely play it against the Leblanc Model 50 for comparison. Also, the Buffet range is to low Eb rather than low C. This shouldn't be a big limitation though. I haven't seen lower notes called for in concert band parts for the contra alto clarinet (I see such notes commonly in parts for the BBb, however).
It was rumored that Buffet has a prototype BBb contrabass clarinet, nearing production readiness. Anybody else here know anything about this?
Regards,
Patrick
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Author: graham
Date: 2002-08-01 17:00
Another alternative for those who have a short bass and feel they need a long one, is get an extension made. Costs perhaps £1200. It can be disengaged for parts which don't go down that low, and many instrument cases will have a place to slot it in. No need to junk a nice shorter bass, or compromise its tone on all parts (if the extension is not needed it doesn't get in the way). No need for the contra and attendant stares of disbelief from the conductor.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-08-01 17:15
ONLY £1200??? That's about twice as much as I paid for my entire instrument! Being broke and rather handy, I'm going to build my own low-C extension -- I have most of the parts and supplies I need, and I've already built a couple of successful prototypes out of PVC and copper pipes, and have a single-note (low-D only) 'mini-extension' I carry in my case and have used occasionally. I suspect that for most (non-tinkerer) players it would simply be more cost-effective to buy a low-C bass, especially as the only person making low-C extensions at the moment (that I know of, anyway) is Steven Fox in Canada, and I suspect he's quite busy and may have a long backlog. As for low-C bass clarinets 'from the factory', I've heard that the new Amati model (#692, I believe) is pretty good and quite reasonably priced (about $3000 US retail), allegedly far superior to the old Amati #392 (or thereabouts) which was a truly crummy instrument --- my point is, one could obtain an entire low-C bass for little more cost than a custom-made extension to a low-Eb bass. As for using a contra clarinet in orchestra instead of a low-C bass, I've never heard of anyone actually doing that, although it seems like a reasonable idea if the player can make the contra sound like a bass (which is possible).
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Author: Patrick
Date: 2002-08-01 17:21
Graham,
Good points on the low C bass clarinet extension.
To get clearer response over the bridge, some contra players have been known to remove the low C#/low C joint when those notes aren't called for; on the low C bass clarinets I've seen, that isn't an option.
Having an extension made for a beloved low Eb instrument could be the best solution for the bass clarinet specialist.
Patrick
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Author: graham
Date: 2002-08-02 17:50
David
Fair points, but:
You keep using the bass you love (if you don't love it, seek a new relationship with the leggier one).
Those who think short ones are more responsive can keep it short most of the time.
Jeremy Lowe in London does it. He also does D extensions in the way you describe, so there are others out there doing it, and, where there is demand, supply often follows.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-08-02 18:33
There's still an ongoing debate about whether "short" (low-Eb) bass clarinets are more responsive/better-sounding than "leggy" (low-C) instruments, just as in the baritone sax world some believe that low-Bb baris play better than low-A baris. I only have a small amount of personal experience here: recently I've played two modern low-C basses (a Selmer 33 and a Selmer 37) and both played every bit as well as (that is, neither better nor worse than) my late-'50s vintage Kohlert low-Eb bass; and my new low-A bari sax (a Taiwan-made Buescher BU-6) plays just as freely and sounds just as big and fat as any low-Bb bari sax I've played. So let's assume for the sake of discussion that there's probably not a strong 'responsiveness' argument for keeping one's low-Eb bass clarinet and using a portable extension with it. Then what remains are arguments of logistics (how many instruments do you want to lug around, how many extensions can you fit in your case) and economics (how much does a low-C extension cost compared to a full low-C instrument) and availability (I've never heard of Jeremy Lowe --- any details?). I don't know the correct answer, but hopefully we're identifying some options.
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