 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: RicK Tocce
Date: 2002-07-30 04:46
I have read the messages regarding the alto clarinet, but have had a different experience with an older Buffet. It lives up to the spotty reputation of the instrument: rather small and stuffy sound and pretty awful intonation. I have also picked up an old Vincent and a Guy Humphrey that have "quirks" of their own. Most clarinetists I have met refer to the alto as a "novelty" and often gripe, " good luck finding one that plays in tune"! I am still interested in exploring the alto voice in my own playing and in compositions but I can't bear to take another chance on an older horn.
There are two instruments that have caught my attention: Yamaha and Amati. Both instruments make a point about their intonation. Also, the Amati has ring keys which make me wonder if that may solve the smallness of sound: perhaps the alto's body is too little to have covered keys. The problem with new altos is that they are pretty rare and almost impossible to find in a music store. Most stores have to special order it -- what a risk!! Does anyone have any thoughts on these instruments and on the ring key issue.
Thanks, Rick
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Author: RS
Date: 2002-07-30 05:20
An alto with rings instead of plateaus? It would seem to me that the tone wholes would be too small if they can be covered by the fingers and that the sound would therefore be even more stuffy and small.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-07-30 06:11
Hahahahaha... Finding ANY clarinet that plays in tune without help is worth its weight in new reeds, RicK
My thought(s) on the subject of alto clarinet ring keys:
I bought a Bundy alto off eBay a while back. It has Brilles (ring keys), that I like the 'feel' of. My fingers aren't abnormally large either. It plays pretty well in tune and needed only a small register mechanism adjustment when it arrived. Pads are okay and it was cheap. It sounds fine to me and most of my neighbors are hard of hearing (as am I), so I've had no complaints from that quarter - at least I haven't Heard any :]
The sound is not at all stuffy, maybe because I use alto sax reeds.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2002-07-30 08:00
If my experience with the basset horn is any guide, try to find a fairly open mouthpiece that takes alto-sax reeds. And play with a more relaxed embouchure.
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Author: andrea
Date: 2002-07-30 12:32
I had an alto with rings and open holes (that I sold on ebay, lol). You had to be pretty accurate with your fingerings, as the holes were bigger than the Bb. I steered a few HS prospects away because of it. If you have small hands/fingers, stick with the plateau keys.
BTW, I use Legere Alto Sax reeds and a Rovner lig with pretty good success.
Andrea
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Author: John Moses
Date: 2002-07-30 13:21
FYI
A little Alto Clarinet humor:
"An Alto Clarinet is a instrument that looks like it should sound better"
JJM
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-07-30 14:00
Rick -
Selmer altos from the 1960s have the best reputation. They come on eBay fairly frequently. Of course, if you find one, there's no guarantee of what shape it will be in (particularly since almost all of them come out of schools), or how good it was in the first place, but at least that gives you a head start.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-07-30 14:49
I like the posts of John M and Ken S, they say what my experience with several altos has taught me. The best alto I have owned-played is a B series [plateau] Selmer-Paris ['80s I believe], a smaller bore than my previous LeBlanc, but still larger than the Basset horns. Its tonal qualities are "in-between" [IMHO], and our cl-prof. comm. band conductor is requesting I play it in tomorrow's concert to "fill-out" the reeds, there ARE some parts diff. from a-saxes and brass!! which are hard to play-over! Because of my small hands and "reach", using the little-finger keys is the horn's only negative. Yes, I use [med.] a-sax reeds on my old Olympia?? mp, which is better than my Sel C*, Bundy 3 and B44, med. re: lay and tip. About the open-hole altos, I couldn't cover accurately! Don
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Author: John Moses
Date: 2002-07-30 15:31
Hi Guys:
Really, the Alto (or outdoor) Clarinet is used primarily in HS bands and college wind ensembles. The Basset Horn, however is used often in symphonic music, and I have often played it in Mozart's Requiem, a great work.
The Alto Clarinet has always been a bit of a joke, and for some of the good reasons listed above. In this musical community it is relegated to the band exclusively, write for A Clarinet, Basset, Bass, or Contra.
JJM
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-07-30 17:14
I have and enjoy playing the alto clarinet (mine is a nice late-50's vintage Kohlert-Winnenden, Germany) but I have to agree with John that the horn is nicer to look at (and to play) than it is to listen to. The reality is, the alto clarinet is the solution to a problem that doesn't exist: it fills a 'non-gap' between the soprano and bass clarinets, in which its upper register sounds like a thin and somewhat strained soprano clarinet, and its lower register sounds like a thin bass clarinet without much body or depth. The bass clarinet's upper register and soprano clarinet's lower register both sound good (when played properly) and have sufficient overlap in range, that the alto clarinet simply is unnecessary.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2002-07-30 18:34
Now let's hear it from someone who loves the sound of the alto clarinet. We all have that inner voice in our heads, and for some of us, the alto may be it. So let's not knock it too much. I heard a Russian clarinetist, whose name I believe is Feynstein, playing wonderfully on the alto clarinet.
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Author: John Moses
Date: 2002-07-30 18:39
Hi beejay:
Do you mean Giora Feidman?, the famous Klezmer clarinetist.
I played a concert with him at Tully Hall in NYC a few years ago, and he played on an old Basset Horn!
JJM
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Author: E. Michael Blake
Date: 2002-07-30 19:02
My experience of 30-plus years ago supports the belief stated in this thread that the alto clarinet, like four-wheel steering, is the answer to a question nobody asked. I ended up playing alto in high school band at the urging of the band director/teacher, who already had plenty of soprano clarinetists and had a few school-property alto instruments sitting around, which he lent out at no charge. What I learned ultimately was that there was not a single piece in our repertoire that made serious use of the altoists; in every case, the alto clarinet part was an exact replica of the 2nd alto sax part. Does anybody have any different experience of alto music at the high-school band level?
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-07-30 21:22
My current experience with alto clarinet playing is in a high-level community wind ensemble (smallish concert band) in which I either play bass clarinet or (if another bass clarinetist is available) I'll double on EEb contra-alto and Eb alto --- in which case I only play the alto clarinet when (a) there is no dedicated contra-alto or contra-bass clarinet part, (b) there is no non-covered contrabassoon part, and (c) it doesn't make musical sense to play the string bass part or double the tuba parts. The bottom line is, I don't play that much alto clarinet, and the band director is more than happy with that arrangement! Whenever I do play it (and I don't think I sound THAT bad) he gets this slightly annoyed look....And as far as the usefulness of the alto clarinet parts I have played, they're generally just doubling the 2nd or 3rd clarinet parts or (as noted by E. Michael Blake) the 2nd alto sax parts, or the French horn parts. Only in rare instances, such as the occasional Holst or Grainger music (those crazy Brits!) have I gotten anything resembling a unique or moderately important part for the alto clarinet. Just my limited experiences......
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Author: Arthur
Date: 2002-07-31 01:07
One of the Percy Granger pieces has an alto clarinet solo in the middle movement. The alto clarinet has an important part to play when it is played in tune and with a proper reed. It covers some of the unison passages when the soprano and bass clarinets are going over the break, etc. The main problem is that there are not many clarinet players in HS bands any more, and that many weak players where put on the alto clarinet. If you play any of the old band music ( early 20's and 30's ) you can appreciate how valuable a balance this instrument can be. Also, I have played with Bill Gower when he does the program with all the clarinets, from Ab to BBb. His alto clarinet playing is delightful . My basset horn is not an alto clarinet. Too many composers do not lnow how to use this instrument, and delegate it to Alto sax II parts, etc. My opinion, only. I would love to play in a full symphonic wind band with two Eb, twenty-four Bb, four Altos, four bass, and EEb or BBb on the bottum. Arthur
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Author: Willie
Date: 2002-07-31 06:56
I think altos sound great and ad a better timbre to a concert band. Since a lot of pieces we play were orriginaly written for a full orchestra with all the fiddles and such, those string parts have to be pawned off on various wood winds. The soprano clarinets get most fiddle parts but what about the violas and cello parts? I think alto, bass, and contras cover these parts better than say the saxes. The over all sound is so much better if a concert band has more of the lower clarinets.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-07-31 18:03
Well said Arthur and Willie, I enjoyed the transposed viola parts when we had a 15-20 piece cl choir in Tulsa, it demonstrated the alto's capabilities, most "concert" music does not, a shame! Don
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Author: Rick tocce
Date: 2002-08-01 04:14
Dear David,
I appreciate your response and information but I question your opinion regarding the alto clarinet's importance in the clarinet choir. Using your argument, the viola isn't necessary because the cello and the violin overlap nicely. I was reading Straus' book on orchestration the other day. He bemoaned that clarinetist were using Eb's where he had asked for the D. He felt they had a different sound quality -- and they are on;y a half step apart!
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Author: jenna
Date: 2002-08-01 04:29
I loved the alto when I played it. I really hate that I can't have my own anymore, since beginning my stint as a poor college student. I had some great parts in concert band literature both in HS and my community band.
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Author: Patrick
Date: 2002-08-01 09:25
I agree with Willie - that the alto clarinet (along with the other low clarinets) adds richness to the concert band and can fill a particular void that no other instrument can (that created by the absence of the viola in the concert band).
The major problems with the alto clarinet are basically that everybody keeps saying the instrument sounds colorless, has poor intonation, etc. -- which becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. In my own concert band experience, however, the alto clarinet players are/were quite competent, and they sound(ed) good. How about "an extended chalumeau clarinet"? Some would say, it couldn't get better than that!
I doubt many of my bandmates would disagree: we could use more alto clarinets, as well as more bass, contra alto, and contrabass clarinets, of course. Clarinets are the central choir of the wind ensenble, taking the role of the strings in the orchestra.
Funny, they make the same jokes about the viola in the orchestra as they do in the band (and here on Sneezy, unfortunately) about the alto clarinet. Try listinging to an orchstra without its violas though. Frankly, the effect is: "where's the beef"? In the band, the effect of the underrepresentation of the alto clarinets is not so bad, primarily because of the presence of alto and tenor saxophones (whieh are all but banned from orchestras, again unfairly and self destructively). However, the alto clarinet is, as Willie implies, a better replacement for a viola than any saxophone.
I would say the alto clarinet deserves respect, and a repertoire that makes it a substitute for nothing. If one expects excellence, one often gets it. If one assumes a screw up, somebody is only to happy to oblige. It's time we apply this basic tenet of leadership to a sadly neglected member of our own family -- the alto clarinet.
Patrick
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-08-01 14:44
Rick and Patrick,
I was not stating my personal opinions about the alto clarinet's importance (or lack thereof) --- I like the sound of the instrument and believe (analogously to the viola) that it does indeed add a subtle but useful color to the band and/or clarinet choir. However, the reality is, when 'triage time' comes around, that is, when a band director has limited resources and has to eliminate one instrument in favor of another, I'd find it hard to argue with him/her that the alto clarinet could be eliminated with little loss. And since bass clarinet is my primary instrument, I have on many occasions played alto clarinet cues and (IMHO) sounded better doing so than the alto would have sounded had it been there.
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