 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Diane
Date: 2002-07-28 00:17
I came across an Evette and Schaeffer Master Model clarinet #K3198.
Can someone help me with this instruments's history?
thanks -
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Author: Diane
Date: 2002-07-28 01:04
You are right---my apologies. I did rush into my inquiry without looking over the site.
Diane
LastTbn@aol.com
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Author: Jim S.
Date: 2002-07-28 16:41
K31xx is not listed on the Buffet site because their information is not complete, but a K4144 was made in 1952, so this is a very early horn and probably one to stay away from. They have no undercutting up into 1959 according to people on the BB who have made comparisons, as you will see if you do a thorough search.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-07-28 17:11
Diane,
It sounds like you don't actually own this instrument. However, if you have access to it and a scanner or a digital camera and can send some pictures of the clarinet (particularly of the keywork and the label) to my e-mail address, I might be able to tell you something about it. (You can scan a clarinet directly by laying it carefully on a scanner.) The fact that it is designated a master model suggests to me that it probably dates to the early 50's.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2002-07-28 17:25
It seems than early E&S and E&S MM have undercut tone holes. I recently sold K179, which had undercut tone holes. I've never seen MM with NO undercutting. However they might exist.
Pat Parkin 2 years ago wrote:
>"1) E & S Master Model #K6737: No undercutting, polycylindrical upper joint, old-style keywork.
2) E & S Master Model #K8561: No undercutting, polycylindrical upper joint, new style keywork.
3) E & S Master Model #K8672: No undercutting, polycylindrical upper joint, new style keywork"<
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Author: Jim S.
Date: 2002-07-28 17:55
Vytas: Your information directly conflicts with Parkins' (that is, if when you say you have never seen an MM with no undercutting you are including observations for the periods that Parkins has examples for). On the other hand, if you have never viewed MM's for his periods, then perhaps the early E&S's were undercut and later ones were not. That doesn't seem likely, but of course it is possible. Am I off base here in my reading of the messages?
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2002-07-28 19:03
Jim S
Yes, you are off base here.
You said: >”They have no undercutting up into 1959 according to people on the BB who have made comparisons, as you will see if you do a thorough search”.<
That's incorrect! E&S K179 was made earlier than 1959 and it has factory undercut tone holes. I base my info on the instruments I overhauled, sold or had actually in my hands. Mistakes are made when people base their own info just on "what someone said":
I believe Pat Parkin is correct, but I personally never seen early Master Model with NO undercutting.
BTW, it was me who pointed out K4144 to this board.
>http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=81982&t=81824>
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Author: Jim S.
Date: 2002-07-28 22:09
Vytas: I apologize for extrapolating Parkins' information to periods before his observations. I could not imagine Buffet undercutting their E&S's for a time (especially for a cheaper clarinet and during the period (1940's and early 1950's) when undercutting was less common)and then stopping it for a later period.
If you believe Parkins is correct, as you say, and it is also correct that you have never seen an E&S MM that was not undercut, then despite your broad experience with E&S, I guess you have never observed an E&S made during Parkins' data period of 1956-1959. Is that correct?
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Author: Jim S.
Date: 2002-07-28 22:13
Another thought: I am not trying to be contentious, just trying to get at the facts. How many observations (beyond K179) is your statement regarding Pre-1959 E&S's based on?
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Author: Diane
Date: 2002-07-29 02:25
Jack et al
Thanks for all responses. The clarinet belongs to a dear friend of my father's. I will scan it tomorrow and forward the shots. It does look like the one that recently sold on ebay, but in a different case.
I did research in the Klarinet Archives regarding the serial number and became aware of the "void" with the K series below 4000.
I am grateful for all the help. I feel as if I should be able to answer questions of undercutting etc., but I am afraid I have been too long away from my earlier years of clarinet playing/knowledge(I studied with Pyne when he was at U.B.!). Old and way out of the loop for too many years!
Again thanks
Diane
LastTbn@aol.com
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Author: Jim S.
Date: 2002-07-29 02:38
You can easily look for undercutting on the non-padded holes by putting a chopstick, or something not likely to mar the bore, against the inside of the hole and shine a light in to see whether there is a slight slanted (larger) area between the straight part of the bored finger-hole and the last very small part where the finger hole meets the interior bore. It may only be an eighth of an inch or significantly less. I am interested in what you find.
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-07-30 02:31
Vytas,
I'll challenge your statement on the undercutting. I disagree with you. I have seen MM's without undercutting. Now, I guess, other will have to judge for themselves which one of us is correct.
jbutler
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2002-07-30 15:45
John, I believe, you're right! But my statement doesn't make me incorrect either. I said I've never seen one, it doesn't mean the do not exist. Also I posted Pat Parkin's info where he mentioned three E&S MM with NO undercutting.
Here is my statement:
"I've never seen MM with NO undercutting. However they might exist."
My Post:
Author: Vytas (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 07-28-02 13:25
It seems than early E&S and E&S MM have undercut tone holes. I recently sold K179, which had undercut tone holes. I've never seen MM with NO undercutting. However they might exist.
Pat Parkin 2 years ago wrote:
>"1) E & S Master Model #K6737: No undercutting, polycylindrical upper joint, old-style keywork.
2) E & S Master Model #K8561: No undercutting, polycylindrical upper joint, new style keywork.
3) E & S Master Model #K8672: No undercutting, polycylindrical upper joint, new style keywork"<
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I base my info on the instruments I overhauled, sold or had actually in my hands. Mistakes are made when people base their own info just on "what someone said":
______________________________________________________________
John, I can not find a reason for your challenge!?
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