 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Martina
Date: 2002-07-27 00:52
Hello all Well, I know this is an old issue, old topic, and old problem for all instrumentalists, but I would like to hear some more insight on it. I was wondering how you KNOW that you are supporting your air. I know that the diaphram should control the air and you use pressure to create support, but how do you know you aren't using your ab muscles to do it? Support has been the one thing that I've struggled with, and I know I won't get any better unless I fix it. Can anyone tell me what its supposed to feel like, or are there any 'checks' you can do to make sure you are supporting correctly? I appreciate everyone's thoughts on this.
Thank you! Martina
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-07-27 03:34
I know I'm getting good air support when my tone improves and I don't feel like I've been doing sit-ups all day.
I can tell when my abs are doing the work because it causes more muscle strain, and my diaphragm feels more relaxed.
Plus, I've tried playing "by abs" now, and I get this really ugly vibrato.
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Author: William
Date: 2002-07-27 15:00
Stand, or sit Tall. Breath as "deeply" as you can (way down into your tummy) without letting your shoulders rise. Don't worry about separating your "abs" from your diaphram--they are too closely related in the breathing function and should both be used. Use all your air without scrunching foreward as you near its end. Just a couple thoughts that I hope will help. The real test is in how steady your tone becomes.
Another thought--time the length that you can hold your tone (secnond line G, ex) on a clock. Many of my beginning clarinetists could hold for twenty-five seconds after only a few lessons. Going for "length" should give you incentive for taking in a larger volume of air and expelling it efficiently. Also, the better the quality of your sound, the longer you can hold. BTW, breathing deeply was the first subject that Larry Combs addressed in his recent IMS clinic. Without good breathing habits, nothing else is possible. Good luck!!!! (if blueness sets in, take a break)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-07-28 11:12
Support refers to air pressure in your lungs/throat/mouth while you ar blowing. The abdominal muscles (in conjuction with intercostal,i.e. 'betweeen the ribs' muscles) are RESPONSIBLE for support. Without abs (or a grossly distended stomach resulting form almost non-existent abs - from lack of use!!) you cannot blow!
The diaphragm is used to inhale - NOT to actually play notes. The abs are used to exhale. See:
http://www.woodwind.org/Databases/Logs/1999/04/000786.txt
and
http://freespace.virgin.net/pip.eastop/html/breath.htm
or
http://www.btinternet.com/~eastop/html/breath.htm
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Author: Jas
Date: 2002-07-28 19:29
In reading this post, and others on the subject from the past, I can only conclude... different strokes for different folks.
I've always practiced that the diaphram AND lungs are used to exhale. The abs are used to maintain control, acting like the other guy opposite the lungs on a teeter-totter of air. Keep the stomach tight while inhaling... you'll "feel" the air in your lungs gradually put pressure on the diaphram (it's a good way to find the darn thing too!).
In effect, the abs should be relaxing while you exhale, not pushing in, giving the visual effect that your belly (let's fact it, more of us have more belly and less ab :0) )is moving outward like it was bringin' air in.
But, frankly, I'm beginning to think, that your breathing technique, when aiming for tonation, is like reeds. Try them all out, and go with the one the gives you the best results. The difference is, that once you've found the right technique, you can keep it forever... you don't have to go searching through the box again for the one other good one outta ten... but that, folks, is another show.
IMHO
Jas
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-07-29 07:37
Aparently the diaphragm has no nerves that report its presence to its owner, not what it is doing. It is only the result of what it does that we detect. It is physically impossible for a diaphragm to PUSH air. When it tightens air is inhaled. No muscle can 'push as it elongates; they only pull tighter or relax.
The above post, unless I misunderstand it, has it all wrong.
As air is breathed in, the ribs expand outwards, the chest frontwards, the back backwards, and the belly outwards. The shoulders should not rise.
If the diaphragm is involved with the inhale, then the belly MUST move outwards. The diaphragm, tightens across the body from its relaxed bell shape, and in the process pushes the gut down. the gut has nowhere to go but OUT!
Go see a reputable singing teacher if you're worried about it. They generally know a lot more on the topic than the average instrumental teacher. However there is almost universal misuse of the term diaphragm, except in the medical profession.
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Author: Jas
Date: 2002-07-29 08:22
Gordon wrote....
As air is breathed in, the ribs expand outwards, the chest frontwards, the back backwards, and the belly outwards.
Yes... everything you say is correct... except the belly part. My point being, that, even though it may be the "natural" thing to do, you should NOT expand the gut. If you "expand" everything at once, your only source of control is with your throat (which may, in turn effect the position of your tounge as well, which in turn, will change your intonation). If the belly is tightened on the inhale, you have better control of air while loosening the ab muscles on the exhale. It is the way I have been taught to sing, and since then, I've been watching a lot of singers' bellies for proof... staring at them for long periods of time, nodding my head with acceptance of the theory and getting strange looks from others in the audience. In fact, you can better expand the chest and ribs using this method. If you draw the belly in you'll gain better control...and you'll feel it. It takes a bit of practice.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-07-29 14:50
Martina -
Support is not as mysterious as it seems. Also, as you might guess, it's come up on this board before. Go to http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=59103&t=58998 and read what people had to say there. In particular, I suggest you go to the links I provided to the work of the legendary Arnold Jacobs, the tuba player in the Chicago Symphony, who knew more about the subject than anyone.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-07-30 01:37
Well Jas & I will have to agree to disagree.
However one thing is for certain, physiologically speaking.... It is the abdominals that provide support (pressure) no matter how the breath is taken in, unless the gut is grossly distended throughout the entire blowing process, in which case the pressure inside the body is contained, rather than provided, by the relaxed but distended tissue (muscle, fat, skin)at the front of the gut.
Yes, the stomach CAN be kept flat while breathing in, but this limits the size of breath that can be taken in, because the diaphragm has not been completely flattened.
I think singers tend to make their stomach movements as inconspicuous as possible, simply for the look, but this does limit breath intake somewhat.
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Author: Jas
Date: 2002-07-30 04:59
Gordon said... It is the abdominals that provide support (pressure) no matter how the breath is taken in,
YES..
It think we're almost saying the same thing re: the abs and their support. We just have different methods of getting it, 'tis all. What's good for the goose is not necessisarily good for the gander. The ends justify the means.
Thanks for getting me all riled up :oD. I needed to improve my circulation!
Jas
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Author: ChattyClar
Date: 2002-07-30 17:11
Just push out your stomach and keep it out while your playing. Unless you are using air from your "gut" you will not be able to keep it out. Don't make it more complicated than it is.
Mike~
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