 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Wan
Date: 2002-07-25 03:14
I am an advance clarinet player. It’s been years that I have had this tonguing problem: everytime when I articulate beyond 110 or above(16th note), my tonguing will SPEED UP randomly and I just can’t control it especially the rhythm. I can tongue fast. But any articulation passages go beyond 110(16th note), my tongue just can’t control itself and it just tongues FASTER than it’s actual speed. I’ve been tackling this problem working closely with the metronome for months, unfortunately it didn’t help. Last week I had an opportunity to discuss this issue with a bassoonist from the Chicago Symphony, I’m glad that I’m not alone. His articulation loses it's contol when any articulation passages go beyond 120(16th note). He tackles this problem by using double tonguing when his tonguing loses control anything beyond his 16th=120. I don’t know what’s behind this problem, but if any of you encounter the same problem, please share with me. Thanks.
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Author: ChattyClar
Date: 2002-07-25 13:39
A couple of things come to mind. First, are you anchor tonguing? If so, "tip of the tongue to the tip of the reed." Second, is the tip of your tongue FIRM you articulate. You have to have a firm tongue in order to tone cleanly and with control. A good exercise to practice is just tonguing various patterns on open G: half notes, quarter notes, eighths, sixteenths, 32nds... You're probably laughing when I say "half notes," but that's where the problem starts. If you can't tongue slowly with control, you will never be able to tongue fast with control. Hope this helps!
Mike~
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Author: HAT
Date: 2002-07-25 14:35
To me it sounds like a basic rhythmic problem first. Your sense of rhythm must be in control of ALL of your technique.
The other thing that you might need to do is strengthen the cooperation between your brain and tongue. That simply means slow, uncomplicated, dedicated practice. You'll need a good teacher who understands what articulation is and how it works.
Get a metronome and work slowly. There are no magic cures for technical or rhythmical problems
David Hattner, NYC
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-07-25 14:46
Wan -
Jack Brymer in his autobiography says that despite its size and clumsy look, the bassoon is a hair-trigger instrument -- the fastest responding wind instrument. Furthermore, double tonguing on the bassoon is fairly easy, and every bassoonist I know who has professional ambitions has learned to do it, just for the little solo in the finale of the Beethoven 4th, which is on every bassoon audition, just as the Midsummer Night's Dream Scherzo is on every clarinet audition.
Don't worry about double tonguing on the clarinet -- it's very difficult, and few people master it. The object right now is to improve your single tonguing.
Having control problems with 16ths faster than 110 means you're doing something wrong. If you're tonginging correctly (tip-to-tip), you're probably thinking (at least at 110 and below) about starting and stopping the tone with your tongue. Instead, you should think of the tone as continuous, and only slightly interrupted by the tongue, like a flat stone skipping across a pond. For a short explanation and some exercises, see my posting at http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=32780&t=32715.
As ChattyClar says, you may be anchor tonguing, which is putting the tip of your tongue down behind your lower teeth and touching the reed farther back on your tongue. For a longer explanation and additional exercises, see my posting at http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=6899&t=6887.
You may be be moving your jaw or throat when you tongue. A mirror will reveal this immediately. If you're doing this, you need to work on eliminating it entirely. This is not difficult to do for a few moments, but you have to work hard to make it habitual.
Finally, having trouble at 110 is a pretty sure sign that you're blowing puffs of air from your abdomen as you tongue. You'll feel this by putting your right hand on your abdomen while playing some left-hand notes. This is called the Valsalva Maneuver, and it's something you need to cure yourself of for a whole lot of reasons. It involves large, slow-moving muscles and is the cause of more problems than you can imagine. See my two postings on the thread at http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=10250&t=10216 for more detail and some ideas on how to do something about it.
Work on this for a few days and come back with a report.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Wan
Date: 2002-07-25 19:51
Thanks everyone for your valuable advise! They help.
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Author: Suzanne
Date: 2002-07-25 22:02
Your wind has to remain constant and YOU have to stay RELAXED. Are you "trying harder" to tongue fast when the metronome gets over 110? The harder you try to go fast, the more tension you will create and the less accurate your articulation will be. I find that the more relaxed I am, and the more I just "let" the tongue move easily on top of a constantly moving air stream, the faster and more securely I can articulate. Tension likes to mount in abdomen, chest, fingers, neck, and face when we try really hard to "get it;" the more relaxed, the more easily things flow.
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Author: col
Date: 2002-07-26 08:44
trust me i know the problem you are having i was in a very similar position a few months ago. For me the problem was that the tounge was not in firm or in control it was just fluttering in the airstream and i had no control, but it could go very fast 150 + on semis etc for very short periods of time. I found that by moving where i tongue on my tongue further down rather than at the tip that i could make the action firmer and gain control. I don't think you should move it back so far that you are anchor tonguing but i think , for me anyway that it has become far more easy and reliable by moving away from the tip of the tongue. It has also made the action alot cleaner for slower staccato tounging. Best of luck
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Author: Gretchen
Date: 2002-07-31 15:06
Wan, I have that problem too!! I think what happens, is that you know that you're going to have to play fast...so you prep yourself, by "reving up your engines". At first it starts out ok, but once you get going, and you relax, not concentrating on consistency, your tongue goes all over the place. It's definately control problem. You obviously have the ability to play fast...but you just have to learn control now.  good luck!
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