 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Susie
Date: 2002-07-17 16:54
I've posted a few times before and have appreciated the advice. I returned to playing the clarinet after a 15-20 year hiatus about 10 mos ago. After taking lessons with a friend's instrument for 6 mos., I bought a used Buffet R-13 ( c. 1995 ) from a local music shop where they sell and repair woodwinds. Before buying it I had a teacher test it out with me and, although she didn't like it as well as her own, she thought it sounded pretty good. I was also trying a new R-13 as well as some older models out at the time. The new one sounded best to me, but as there was a substantial price difference, and she felt that the used instrument sounded pretty good, that's what I bought.
The problem is that I've never been able to really get it "in tune". When the upper register notes are in tune, the lower ones aren't and vice versa. I've tried different mouthpieces and reeds. For a long time we thought it was the weather being cold and moving the instrument from a cold car (my lessons were mid-morning and I was leaving work for them) to a warm building, etc. However, that is no longer the problem. I asked the same teacher to try it out again about 1 month ago and she agreed that it wasn't in tune. The only thing that may have been different when we originally tried the instrument out was that there was a 64mm barrell in the mix of things I was trying out and it's possible that her initial trial on the clarinet was with that barrell.
My dilemma right now is what to do. I can no longer return it. I sent the instrument to Muncy to look at and they said most of the pads are seated incorrectly... too high or too low. However, their charge to overhaul it is really steep. At the moment it's at the shop where I bought it. They have a good reputation for being honest... They said they'd have a local pro player try it out and see what he thinks. I haven't heard from them. I will try to contact him (the pro) today.
How likely is it that this is "fixable"?
Any thoughts on what I should expect to pay for?
How could I have avoided this?
thanks,
Susie
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-07-17 20:12
An R13 is fixable. A competent technician should be able to adjust
'most any clarinet to play reasonably in tune. To do that, of course, the barrel/mouthpiece has to be a proper match and the pads have to seat correctly :|
As I understand your post, you don't want to return it, you want it to play right. I wouldn't think there'd be much of a charge, if any, since you purchased the instrument recently (less than a year?).
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-07-17 20:35
I learned just recently about "pulling" the middle joint...always thought you could only tune by pulling the barrel...If yours is sharp why not try a longer barrel; I'm under the impression 64mm is on the short side..
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Author: William
Date: 2002-07-17 23:06
Tuning 101 (one more time)
Be sure to use a tuner and try to acheive A=440 at each of the following steps.
1) tune second line G--if sharp (normal) pull barrel until in tune.
2) play G above top line (G5)--if sharp, pull middle joint until in tune.
3) Play middle line B--if sharp, pull bell joint a little; if flat, reduce the middle joint pull a little. Low E and F (E3 & F3) may remain a bit flat--these you may just have to "lip up." Throat A and A# (A4 and A#4) may also have to be favored--this may be accomplished by lipping up or down as needed, or by "venting." Most pros play A and A# with the follow fingers also down Oxx/OOO (I also add l-h little finger B/E key)
Some individual notes may still be "out of sync" with the rest of the scale. These may be adjusted by an accoustician who is proficient with uncutting tone holes and pad heigth adjustments. (Tom Fritz at International Musical Suppliers, DesPlaines is a Buffet expert technician) The Brannens from Evanston, IL are also highly regarded clarinet accousticians.
But remember, no clarinet is ever perfect, but your R13 should now be as in tune with itself as it can be. We all have to learn to deal with the minute tuning issues that all of our pro clarinets have and tune with embouchure or fingering adjustments, So continue practicing with your tuning meter on and try to learn where these "problem" notes still are so that you become adept at adjusting them to "in tune" status.
Also, your barrel on your Bb R-13 should be 65mm to 66mm long for A=440 or 442 performance. 64mm is probably to short and will cause you to play too sharp without drastic pulling.
Good luck!!!!
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Author: Fred
Date: 2002-07-18 01:12
William, your Tuning 101 is worth repeating a thousand times (only 2-3 more to go). That is the best tuning procedure I've ever used, and one that I never got during my years with private instructors 30yrs ago.
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Author: HAT
Date: 2002-07-18 03:12
You had the instrument checked out by a professional clarinetist before you bought it.
Chances are you aren't playing it in tune.
Clarinets don't play in tune by themselves. They have to be played properly in order to do so.
It may take you several years to develop the strengths and skills necessary to play it in tune.
In any case, the first step towards doing it is recognizing that there is a problem. That you have already done. Good luck with the rest.
David Hattner, NYC
www.northbranchrecords.com
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2002-07-18 11:33
Try long notes, intervals and scale practice. There will be something in your breath support or embouchure that is causing the problem. If they play in one register freely enough then there is seldom a mechanical problem. Long note slow intervals and a bit of thought about reed strength or brand should help.
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Author: Susie
Date: 2002-07-18 13:13
Thanks all...
I think I wasn't particularly concerned.... I assumed that I was the problem....until the same teacher who had tried it out with me initially was now also having trouble getting it to play in tune. That's when we tried to figure out what might have been different and remembered that although the barrel on this instrument is 66mm, there was a 64mm barrel in the "mix" of things we tried out. I think the bigger concern is whether in fact the pad/key seatings/heights are so "off" that they are really contributing significantly to tuning. The problem isn't isolated keys... it really is the entire lower OR the entire upper register.
thanks again,
Susie
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2002-07-18 13:53
Note to Mark C.--
I haven't explored the site recently to see everything that is available, but if they don't already exist, I think you should have, as permanently available pages, articles on (1) tuning and (2) tying a string ligature. Both can be gleaned from postings available here.
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Author: Kate, Abbi, and Mel
Date: 2002-07-18 21:41
Thanks for the string- looked over it with some of my favorite students and got some good info about tuning. Good luck with the practice, and have fun with the long tones and scales:) Tuners are a wonderful thing.
As a side note- I have found that I played better in tune with a 64mm barrel on my B-flat when I played with the orchestra at school (although they were notorious for playing sharp). As with all our other equipment, you can't really take much for granted as to what will or won't work, and you have to practice and experiment.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2002-07-19 01:45
Adjusting pad heights should not cost so much, even if done by an expert. If the skins are ok, you shouldn't need new pads. The best thing to do is to find a local, reasonable clarinet repair person who knows what they are doing.
You can compare your clarinet with your teachers clarinet to check nominal pad heights. An R13 should be fixable to play great. All you need is the right person to do the work. I'd stay away from the high profile repair types for the moment as they prefer to go for the whole job at a high price. It would be helpful if you mentioned the city you live in as then people could make better comments. Good luck!
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