 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Karel
Date: 2002-07-16 08:43
The increasing frequency of threads referring us to particular e-bay items makes me wonder about the reasons why. Occasionally it is a call for help or advice with an item, but too often it is just an apparent invitation to go and look at the site. That seems commercially inappropriate for this BB. And if they are just throwaway remarks, why are they being made? E-bay is well enough known to all of us without this. Perhaps if these people stated in the heading of the thread that it refers to e-bay, it would let those of us with no interest in it to ignore it? Am I the only one to find this kind of subterfuge irritating? Karel.
PS: Very occasionally the reference is to an item of possible general interest, but very rarely.
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Author: susannah
Date: 2002-07-16 10:38
I absolutely agree with your post. As a non-american reader I am VERY unlikely to brave the exchange rate and actually buy something off e-bay. I can see that people might want advice or reassurance about a potential purchase, but really, its pretty boring for the rest of us (IMHO). Unfortunately I don't have any ideas for solution to this...but the suggestion of stating what the post is about might be good...then we can avoid it while those actually interested in it can still access the very useful advice and opinions given.
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Author: Doug Ramsdell
Date: 2002-07-16 12:28
Oh, please. There would be "subterfuge" involved if the poster stood to profit in some way by directing our attention to the e-bay site, but mostly I find the posters are either poking fun at the ebay writeup (which I enjoy, I have to say) or less frequently are making an interesting and/or instructive point about the merchandise. None of which bothers me in the least.
the simple solution: if you don't like'em, don't read'em.
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Author: susannah
Date: 2002-07-16 12:33
Doug...the point I made at the end of my post was to say that I would love not to have to read them, in which case all that is necessary is that it is stated in the topic that it is a post referring to an e-bay item.
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Author: John Gibson
Date: 2002-07-16 13:33
I agree with Doug.
By the way, there sure seems to be a lot of discontent on the BB lately. What's up with that? this is a great source of knowledge,
humor and lots of good people.
Lighten up y'all.
John
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-07-16 13:57
Good points pro and con. My interpretation of the original objection was as it relates to the recent "self promotion" series.
How does anyone..including MC know if any such entry falls under that category...and who cares to take the time to check it out. My personal feeling is that the intention of these eBay posts is simply to give others the opportunity to share a laugh or an interesting instrument. And further, IMHO, poking fun at eBay entries is like jousting at windmills....
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-07-16 14:16
Bob wrote:
>
> How does anyone..including MC know if any such entry falls
> under that category...and who cares to take the time to check
> it out.
I care. It's hard enough as it is to strike a fair balance between people who have something to sell <b>and</b> have information they're willing to share (like Omar, Greg Smith, Chris Hill, and others who post regularly). These people are on the up and up - they don't try to hide what they do. If you throw subterfuge in there it becomes almost impossible to sort things out; thus I had to form a new rule: If I discover someone doing this once - a stern warning. Twice, you're out. The reason for the warning first is because some people have posted here without realizing what they're doing - a post of the type "Does anyone know anything about a ______, eBay item nnnnnnn" is sometimes raised by the seller, honestly looking for information about the item they're selling. What do you do in that case? Not allowing the question deprives us all of knowledge; adding the eBay item number in there makes people go look. If I determine the seller is the person asking the question then I'll delete the eBay number, but with all the different screen names it can be hard to figure out (or when there's no return email).
Sometimes I find out by myself, but there have been cases of other caring folk who frequent eBay more than I who let me know when it's happening. This is not an advertising BBoard and never will be.
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Author: Karel
Date: 2002-07-16 15:08
If Doug is right that these posters are only trying to draw our attention to a funny or foolish description of an item on e-bay, please let them make this evident in the heading of their post. Then those of us not inclined to read that sort of stuff can bypass it and move on to the next thread. I would much rather read about mouthpieces and their virtues or which clarinet to buy and why because often fresh comments throw a new light on an old topic. Even a belly laugh at foolishness on e-bay graces it with more importance than it deserves. Karel.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-07-16 15:21
It's reasonably easy to recognize and ignore shill postings about eBay items. I rather miss the references to the funny things uninformed sellers say and the questions about unusual items of interest to the community.
Just me.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Wes
Date: 2002-07-16 16:19
Some ebay items have been described on musical lists which resulted in a "feeding frenzy" of bidding by list readers which caused me to stop bidding. Some of these listings could possibly have been generated by friends of the sellers(shills), but I believe that most are not.
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Author: brenda siewert
Date: 2002-07-16 16:25
Sometimes the eBay thing just comes up in the discussion and isn't planned at all. It's impossible to control every word that comes from every person's keyboard--that should be left to Mark.
I've had people point out the things I've had on eBay in the past and it was 50/50 good and bad for me as a seller. One situation turned out to be disasterous and even ended a formerly good relationship I had with a clarinet source. The particular item I was selling was taken up by the person who posted about it as a "personal project" totally without my permission. It looked like I was behind it, but I knew nothing about why she chose to do so.
But, I enjoy the easy access to some of the items mentioned that I would not normally notice--like unusual clarinets, etc.
By the way, I don't have any clarinets for sale and no motive for posting on the board other than interest in the subject.
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2002-07-16 17:43
Karel said in part:
"Even a belly laugh at foolishness on e-bay graces it with more importance than it deserves."
In response from one who ADVIDLY reads e-bay but hates Dilbert,
Lighten Up Karel, life is too short.
Bob A
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Author: Karel
Date: 2002-07-17 01:03
I am giving it up, but would still love to see e-bay references properly identified in their headers. That said, I feel light as a feather, thank you, Bob. Karel.
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-07-17 03:11
Karel, though I don't particularly agree with your concept... I do typically make some reference in the header that says "ON EBAY" or something of the like. Believe me, until now, it didn't seem to make much of a difference. But if you would like me to, if I post an ebay item I will be sure to make it clear in the title so you don't have to look at it.
BTW, I am saying this with absolutely no sarcasm whatsoever. I really will do this because it makes next to no difference to me.
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Author: Doug Ramsdell
Date: 2002-07-17 03:59
Hey Karel--
AFTER I posted my reply to you, I opened what I suspect is the "offending" posting I think you were referring to...and yeah, it looks fishy to me too. But it's also (if it IS artifice/subterfuge) too clumsy and uninteresting to get me to click MY mouse. Anybody wants to con me into visiting their e-bay site, they'll have to be a hell of a lot cleverer than that. But while sticking to my fundamental point, I DO see what you mean.
cheers,all
Doug
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Author: ken
Date: 2002-07-17 16:20
I normally don't concern myself with issues of this type and stick to music but may I respectfully remind everyone that the original poster (to my knowledge) doesn't administer/dictate policy on this BB...Mark Charette does and it's "his football". Instead of delving into areas that are none of our business and beyond our control we might try letting the man do his job (that he does so well). If he determines a link (of any type or subject line) is a legal/aceptable post and not a plug/bait we should trust his good judgment. All I've read here is well-meaning people getting all worked-up needlessly apologizing and explaining themselves. And the regular posters/contributors bending over backwards willing to change perfectly justifiable words and actions. It's a no-brainer if one opens a thread and sees what is clearly a "ebay link" to back out and move on...no one's forcing anyone to open it and view the add.
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2002-07-18 02:04
Keep in mind that the board is for all aspects of the clarinet. That includes collectors, clarinet history buffs and folks who like a good laugh. The fact is that a lot of the Klarinet community enjoys looking at clarinet stuff on eBay. I don't know who posted the Selmer listing or why. I certainly doubt that the subsequent thread increased the chance that someone would throw away $10,000. However, I found Ken Shaw's posting to be very interesting. Others don't. I am sure that most folks are capable of skipping anything related to eBay if they are not interested.
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-07-18 02:18
Wow - for such a boring topic, this certainly got some heated debate - thankfully, as the BB has been fairly calm of late. I like to have a laugh at the ebay stuff - but I would not look at ebay unless I saw a reference to it here.
The hecklephone posting is/was a classic example (for me) of something very interesting. I agree - let's put "e-bay" in the subject as an identifier and then let people choose to read the thread or not.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-07-18 02:47
Putting eBay in the Subject heading is a nice idea - very acceptable to me - but it's one of those things that I'll not enforce. Just highly suggest.
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Author: Karel
Date: 2002-07-24 01:41
Mark, I hate to continue, but your comment is exactly what I had in mind, i.e. that contributors themselves abide by a simple guideline. I also want to add that I had no intention to point fingers at Brenda or David S. or anyone else. I always enjoy the posts from the aforementioned as well as GBK etc. Karel.
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