 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Joe Garza
Date: 2002-07-15 21:12
Hi everyone, it's been a while since I've posted here. First off it's been a long crazy summer, but I'm finally ready for school to begin in a month. However, I have a dilema as to the musical part of my education.
I'm going to be a junior in college (attending Southwest Texas State University) and I'm bent on purchasing a new set of clarinets. I currently own an R13 which I purchased in the fall of 1999, but I want to buy a set of Buffet Vintages. Here's the problem...
I'm called and spoken with representatives from Muncy Winds, Weiner Music, IMS and Woodwind and Brasswind about prices. While Weiner and WW/BW are significantly cheaper than Muncy or IMS, I'm not sure they offer the same service as to the selection of the horns. I'm willing to sell my R13 to make up for the price range (we're talking anywhere from 4-500 dollars difference) so that I can receive a matched set of horns that contain the same characteristics playing wise.
So what I'm basically asking is... Should I go with a mismatched set of a Bb and A for less, or sell my current instrument and pay the extra money for a matched set?
Thanks for any advice,
Joe
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-07-15 21:21
Well, I would hold off until I had the money if it were me. You are a junior in college. Do you have an A already and/or do you need an A at the moment? Perhpaps you could buy an A if you need it, continue to play your current Bb (which isn't really that old if you got it in '99), then when you get a job in a year or so and start earning $$$ you can then purchase another Bb if you need it. However, if as you say you are "bent" and nothing can sway you, then I would purchase whichever played the best for your particular standards. That may be a set, or it may be individual instruments. My newest "set" is a LeBlanc 1193S (Bb) and a Yamaha SE (A). It doesn't matter to me that they are not both LeBlanc or Yamaha. They get the sound that fits my standards.
<a href="http://www.cork-and-pad.woodwind.org">jbutler</a>
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-07-15 22:07
Joe -
You shouldn't buy an instrument -- even a new one -- without playing a bunch of them and picking out the best one. The Vintage *is* an R-13, so I wouldn't work about the Bb and the A matching.
In picking a new clarinet, the top 10 things to look for are:
1. Intonation;
2. Intonation;
3. Intonation;
4. Intonation;
5. Intonation;
6. Intonation;
7. Intonation;
8. Intonation;
9. Intonation; and last, and most important,
10. Intonation.
Only when you find an instrument that's really in tune can you afford to thing about evenness of scale, response and all those other things.
Read what I said at: http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=41632&t=41584.
Read what David Hattner, who makes his living as a player, said at:
http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=52277&t=52179.
The better you get, the more you'll sound like yourself, on any instrument. On an out of tune instrument, you won't sound good with anybody.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-07-15 23:50
I've worked on 'matched/' pairs which have no evidence of any form of matching.
Just what do people realistically expect this term to mean?
I suspect it means no more other than that two clarinets were put into a double case.
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Author: Doug Ramsdell
Date: 2002-07-16 02:22
Yeah, I'm all for a "matched set" if you mean you play as many examples of both Bb and A as you can, pick the best of each, and then wave your magic wand and go "Poof, you're a matched set." If you mean matching serial numbers as close as possible--aw, you couldn't possibly mean that, could you?? That's like picking a place to live based on whether the zip code reads the same forwrds & backwards. Nah, you can't mean that.......right?????
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Author: John gibson
Date: 2002-07-16 05:12
Joe...
I'll give you $400 for your R-13 right now. Will have a money order overnighted first thing in the morning. then you'll be that much closer to your "dream" of matched clarinets.
BETTER YET. Keep your r-13 if it's performing well for you.....and find another "A" or whatever key you're looking to "match" to. Just make sure it sounds the way you want. If you can't find it in the next 24 hours....I will buy your R-13 for $400.
John
PS In addition to the $400 I will send you a vitange JTL ligature...
A wooden Buffet MPC with a 100+ year old wooden cap....(both in pristine condition)....a reed knife...some reed rush....A beautiful Selmer reed case (holds 7 reeds on glass with felt lining)...a box of unopened Zonda #3 reeds....A box of unopened Mitchell Lurie Premium french cut #2 and a half reeds....a Pomarico crystal MPC....
a couple really good clarinet books(Clarinet Companion...and another by David Pyne)....a couple hard to find Artie Shaw cd's...and....and....$20 shipping......
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-07-16 14:15
John, your generosity is exceeded only by your humour. Obviously Joe is a much better musician than I or has greater expectations re the same. There has been much "todo" about matched sets in other areas also such as golf and tool steel and mostly,based on personal experience,it is marketing ballyhoo
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-07-17 05:35
matching pairs - get off your high horse.
I challenge ANY clarinetist to a blind test:
Any two clarinets from any of the top four professional brands all played by the same person and all playing exactly the same piece of music and I BET none of you could match the Selmers with the Selmers, the Buffets with the Buffets etc, etc, etc.
Have you spoken to your teacher about your equipment she/he should be a very good starting point. Your university teacher WILL and SHOULD be able to help you with your choice of instrument.
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Author: Joe Garza
Date: 2002-07-17 06:40
Hi everyone, thanks for the advice, the humor, and the need for clarification...
Do I mean matched serial numbers, definitely not. I agree that a matched set is a pair of horns that I personally feel I sound my best on, regardless of their serial numbers. However, what I am pondering is who to go with for the purchase? I don't have any experience dealing with WW/BW, Weiner, IMS or Muncy except for small purchases at TMEA during February. Does Weiner or WW/BW offer the same "service" of selection certain clarinets with certain characteristics, or is this a mythical load of smoke being blown up my wazoo about being able to have clarinets picked out for an individual?
I plan on play testing at least 3 "sets (read: 3 Bbs and 3 As)" of horns before purchasing. The question is, to do this, who would be the best company to go through. Anything local is out of the question because that was how I originally purchased my R13 (from an H&H at home) and the price was near double what I'd have paid from these companies.
Thanks again,
Joe
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-07-17 12:08
Joe,
Have you thought about running up to Dallas and spending some time at the (oh gawd, I can't remember their name - giant music store chain in Texas, on LBJ freeway ... ). They have a large selection and prices similar to IMS & WW/BW.
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-07-17 12:24
I think you are referring to Brook Mays. They comany is in the same family as H&H, C&S, Caldwell, and others.
<a href="http://wwww.cork-and-pad.woodwind.org">jbutler</a>
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-07-17 13:19
jbutler wrote:
>
> I think you are referring to Brook Mays. They comany is
> in the same family as H&H, C&S, Caldwell, and others.
Yup. Thanks. They frequently have good sales on Buffet equipment. My son's 2 Festivals came from that store.
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Author: Jerry McD
Date: 2002-07-17 13:46
Joe,
You need to try WAY more than three horns each. I would echo Mark's advice about going to Brooks Mays. I might also suggest jumping on a plane to Chicago and visiting IMS. The cost of a round trip plane ticket and a night in a hotel would easily be offset by the savings on two clarinets and you would have the opportunity to try dozens of instruments. The same would be true for going to NY (Weiner) or South Bend (WW & BW). In fact you could rent a car in Chicago and get to South Bend rather easily for a double dip of clarinet frenzy. Most places for perfectly understandable business reasons will only ship you three instruments at a time. If you can physically go there the $$$ you spend on travel would be well worth the investment to be able to try many instruments out side by side. Good luck and happy hunting!
Jerry McD.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-07-17 14:17
The marketing idea of taking three instruments on trial sounds good in principle but it loads up your credit card and your refunds won't come back as fast as you expect. Plus your shipping cost back and maybe some other hassles. Another option is to rent a car and just drive around the country hitting all the stores.
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Author: Miklos Brabec
Date: 2002-07-17 19:41
Try as many clarinets as is possible...if this drives the sellers nuts>>>So what...they can afford having someone try their instruments. Don't give up on the new R13 concept, if one plays better than the old ones you might have, then you might have a steal for the money! Get a good price and Good Luck MB.......!
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-07-18 00:59
Joe,
TBA is coming up in two weeks at San Antonio. I know that IMS will probably be there. WW&BW never are, but Brook Mays will be. Why don't you contact them and see if they'll bring them to SA so you can try them out there. It would be worth the $40 convention fee to try them out all in one day. It would be worth contacting Lisa Argiris (IMS)and Tom Ridenour (Brook Mays).
<a href="http://www.cork-and-pad.woodwind.org">jbutler</a>
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Author: Doug Ramsdell
Date: 2002-07-18 04:57
Hey Joe--
reading thru the thread above, I see a few options that are pretty liberal with YOUR time & YOUR money. In the best of all possible worlds, of course, it's absolutely true that you should play-test as many instruments as possible (and for as long a period of time as you can get away with).
What worked for me, though, was to call WW/BW, find out when they were expecting a new shipment of R-13s from the factory, and have them ship me 3 of the fresh stock (as opposed to stuff that had already been picked over). They sent me three instruments that I was literally the first person to play, and I ended up with a beautiful instrument. (CAVEAT: it's dangerous & difficult trying to evaluate instruments that are fresh from the shipping carton; they almost always need some adjustments first. So on second thought, I'd say make sure to A) get the freshest stock B) from a shop that DOES go over their instruments before putting them on sale--as I believe Weiner & Muncy both do).
I for one would be curious to know what you decide to do, and (eventually) how it worked out. Keep us posted?
best of luck
doug R
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Author: Milklos Brabec
Date: 2002-07-19 12:47
In Slovakia Buffet sends to the conservatory a rep every so often with about 100 or so clarinets. Likewise to be sure your best thing is to stick to what you feel is best for your own individual needs as a player. If cost is a problem, go with the lowest price yet make sure you are most happy with the instrument of choice. If time is a factor, then don't rush to the pay counter, and, instead wait a while till you find what you feel is best is in your hands...don't be afraid to ask of the sales people the best price and if they aren't responsive walk out. It is in your best interest that your service and purchase experience is the finest. When one considers how pricey things are, they should respect your every whim as a musician and player. MB>>>>
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