 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Micaela
Date: 2002-07-16 02:54
I'm leaving for music camp next Sunday and I get to start with my favorite thing...a seating audition. I'm playing the Debussy Premiere Rhapsodie and a bunch of orchestral excerpts. How loudly should I play? Should I amplify all my pianos and pianissimos? The Debussy's mostly a quiet piece and one of the excerpts (the slow movement of the Symphonie fantastique) is marked ppp. My teacher says I play too quietly but I don't want to lose too much dynamic contrast. Which is more important in this situation: projection or contrast? It's an audition for an orchestra, not a band.
The other excerpts I have to play are the Beethoven Symphony No. 7, Tchaikovsky Symphony No. 4 and Weber Overture to Oberon. The Tchaikovsky scherzo is a lot of fun.
Thanks,
Micaela
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Author: Simon
Date: 2002-07-16 06:51
Having done a LOT of auditions like these in the past few months for school and other groups i'd like to offer some insight on the subject.
Just play it the way that you think is more fun to play and the way you think it sounds best. If you go on while playing worrying about what they [the auditioners] think, that might make nervous. Enjoy the piece!
It just so happens that I go to camp next sunday also; just out of curiosity, which camp are you attending?
Hope this helps!
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Author: nzdonald
Date: 2002-07-16 11:32
as someone who has both won and lost professional orchestral auditions, plus won the ICA orchestral aud comp in 1998, i have to say that this issue is the biggest pain in the neck ever- i've been told mainly to 1) play the way you would if you were actually performing in the orchestra 2) emphasise dynamic contrast 3) just make music and be comfortable with what you are doing and don't worry too much.....
all of it seems to be good advice on one day/one audition and not on another. i'd say don't take 1) too much to heart (i mean, listen to any recording of Beethoven 8- they are always blasting out in the minuet etc).... i'd say definately do 2) but don't play too softly unless it is a neato tounging section (the start of the Mend Scerzo sounds great at pp if you can get it really clean) and most of the time WHEN YOU ARE PLAYING (as oposed to practising) anything other than 3) is likely to make you play worse....
basically, however, you are at the mercy of the people listening, and who can guess what they think?
donald
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Author: William
Date: 2002-07-16 14:40
Most auditions are decided by rhythm and intonation issues rather than by pesonal musical interpretations and strict adherance to written dynamics. Of course, you must play musically, but without the liberties you might take as a soloist. You are auditioning to be a member of a section and what you want to show, by your audition, is how well might you fit into the ensemble as a whole. And accuracy of rhythmic figures and the ability to play in tune are the two most important factors in ensemble compatability. Remember, as well as the virtuoso violinist Issac Stern played solo and ensemble literatiure, it might have been a challenge for him to play section parts in a large orchestral setting and "blend in" rythmically and artisticly.
Bottom Line: don't worry so much about the dynamic level(s) of your audition, but rather be more concerned with your rhythmic accuracy and intonation. And, if you are judged to be "the best" in these areas of performance, your reward just might be FIRST CHAIR. Knock their Socks off--Good Luck!!!!!
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-07-16 15:13
Micaela -
Anthony Gigliotti said that to balance in the Philadelphia Orchestra, you play at three dynamics: forte, fortissimo and BTSOOI (Blow The Sh*t Out Of It). He played on reeds so stiff that mere mortals could hardly get a peep out of them.
That, of course, was the Philadelphia Orchestra, which has famously rich strings and plays in a notoriously dead hall.
But even in a music camp orchestra, you're 1 against 100, and you have to have something in your tone that will make carry and be heard at any dynamic.
In my high school orchestra, I could be heard easily, but when I got into an orchestra with string players who made a full sound, I found I had to play a lot louder. In my first "big" sounding solo (in the Overture to Der Freischutz), I had to push harder than I thought possible to be heard.
At a Gigliotti master class, he played the nightingale solo from The Pines of Rome so softly you could barely hear it at the edge of the stage. I ran to the back of the large, dead concert hall, and he sounded louder there than up close. He said that even in the Philadelphia Orchestra, he could play that solo very softly. With colleagues that good, playing the solo softly cued them to cut back so he could be heard.
When your teacher says you're playing the Debussy too softly, I think he/she means your sound isn't carrying. Gigliotti's sound was vanishingly soft in the Pines solo, but it was like a golden thread, easily audible.
In both loud and soft solos, being heard involves two things: (1) actually playing louder; and (2) putting more high-frequency "ping" into your sound.
Number (1), you presumably know how to do already. A half strength harder reed will help.
Number (2) involves getting control of your sound, being able to make many good tones instead of just one good tone, and being able to blend in or step forward as necessary. There's been a good bit of discussion about that, and I've posted some exercises. Go to http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=80189&t=80096 , http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=18806&t=18784 , http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=36765&t=36747 , and http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=43807&t=43777 .
This is something you can get started on right away, but getting good at it takes a while. It's something you learn about, and a year later you're doing it.
Now, about your auditions.
Play as well as you can, remembering that you have to "sell" your playing to an audience. That takes more intensity than playing by yourself. Trust your teacher's ears. If he/she says you're not coming over the footlights, it's probably true.
There's a difficult balance to strike between projection and subtlety, muscularity and grace. Even if you have to BTSOOI, you still have to make it sound easy.
Have a great time at music camp. That's as good as it gets.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-07-17 05:03
All of this advice above is prudent. However, as a guy who has been on the "panel" end of an audition panel - i.e. making the decision about who is going to be employed ... I would state, in the first instance, that the panel is likely to be looking for two very important things:
1) - that you play NOTE PERFECT (no errors), and
2) - that you play in tune.
If you are auditioning for a professional symphony job then your sound will also be important but you will be on probation (don't know what you call this in America) and, after a year or so, they orchestra will then decide if you're up to it or not.
I used to love to get the clarinetists to play Daphnis et Chloe exerpts - it always sorted the men from the mice (or the women from the mice).
Don't be shocked if they give you something seemingly easy (Mozart for example) because they will be looking at your interpretive skills.
good luck
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Author: Cindy
Date: 2002-07-17 06:30
One question-What if you're auditioning on a cadenza?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-07-17 12:02
diz wrote:
>
> All of this advice above is prudent. However, as a guy
> who has been on the "panel" end of an audition panel - i.e.
> making the decision about who is going to be employed ... I
> would state, in the first instance, that the panel is likely to
> be looking for two very important things:
>
> 1) - that you play NOTE PERFECT (no errors), and
>
> 2) - that you play in tune.
May I suggest one more thing - perfect rhythm.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-07-17 14:29
A pointer from a Gigliotti master class.
In the auditions he conducted, he would put the first movement of the Beethoven 6th on the stand and instruct the auditioner to begin at a particular measure number. That measure was the cadence and a couple of beats of rest just before the big arpeggiated solo.
If you skipped that measure and started on the solo, you were immediately eliminated. Gigliotti said that following instructions, even if they seem dumb, is vitally important for an orchestral player.
You may not get anything like that, but it pays to listen hard to the instructions.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Micaela
Date: 2002-07-17 23:07
Thank you for all your advice. I'm a little worried about intonation- the upper clarion register of my B flat clarinet tends to be sharp- but I worked on it in my lesson today and I think I'll be ok. I think I may use a slightly harder reed as some of you suggested (if I can find a playable one in my box of flat tipped V12 3.5s!).
Mr. Shaw- it's funny you should mention the Philadelphia Orchestra. The camp I'm going to is in conjunction with their summer festival, we get some sectional coaching and go to all their concerts. All the pieces we're playing we'll also hear them play (except the Weber). I don't know anything about any of their current clarinetists, though. I'm going to try the exercise you described tonight. I think I know what you're talking about when you mean "ping." I've never pinpointed it before but I think I have it some of the time.
I'm more or less ready. Thanks again.
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Author: ChattyClar
Date: 2002-07-18 18:26
Dynamics are relative. I've played in both bands and orchestras, and it's been my experience that there is such thing as an "orchestral dynamic" which is louder and more soloistic. Let's face it, in orchestra clarinets are two versus seventy! In order to project, you have to play louder. However, that doesn't mean that there is no dynamic contrast. A piano is still softer than a mezzo forte and an mf is still softer than forte.
You sound like my student Katie. She's got a nice, sweet, controlled sound, but it sure is quiet. I'm constantly telling her to play louder. She does it for about half a minute and then goes back to a whisper. It is hard for me to understand why anybody would have trouble playing loud. I was always TOO loud! My old teacher used to say that there are two types of students: loud and out of control, and quiet and insecure. The quiet ones generally have the better sounds! But just as the loud ones have to learn to refine and control their sounds, the quiet ones need to project. There is a happy medium.
My advice to you is to listen to your teacher and PROJECT! I disagree with earlier comments that auditions are won by rhythmic accuracy or intonation. Maybe at a beginner's level, but in the professional world, it's all about tone and musical expression. You are rightly concerned about your dynamics. But don't forget about your sound. Orchestra's have a bias towards big sounds because a big sound is a confident sound. At the end of the day, it is your tone quality that is going to win or lose you the audition.
Best of luck!
Mike~
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-07-18 20:51
ChattyClar wrote:
>
> I
> disagree with earlier comments that auditions are won by
> rhythmic accuracy or intonation. Maybe at a beginner's level,
> but in the professional world, it's all about tone and musical
> expression
That's not what I have been told by those who are on selection committees of professional orchestras. Most have been regularly amazed at how poor rhythm and intonation is on those that try out.
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-07-18 23:21
ChattyClar - my remarks were made based on the fact that I was ON the panel MAKING the decision on "who gets the job". End of story - there is no question about you disagreeing with this or not, because it is simply a fact - if they played with bad pitch, rhythm etc - I didn't hire them. End of story.
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Author: Larry Liberson
Date: 2002-07-21 11:26
ChattyClar stated "My advice to you is to listen to your teacher and PROJECT! I disagree with earlier comments that auditions are won by rhythmic accuracy or intonation. Maybe at a beginner's level, but in the professional world, it's all about tone and musical expression. You are rightly concerned about your dynamics. But don't forget about your sound. Orchestra's have a bias towards big sounds because a big sound is a confident sound. At the end of the day, it is your tone quality that is going to win or lose you the audition."
Nothing could be farther from the truth. Sure, if you're sound isn't acceptable and/or you play like a dead fish musically, it is very doubtful that one would end up on the top of the heap.
However, if you cannot play in rhythm or play in tune -- well, believe me, those listening aren't even paying attention to your lovely sound and alleged musical "gifts."
As diz succinctly added...."End of story."
P.S. Your comment about "bias" and "big sounds," etc.....pure nonsense.
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Author: Michael Woods
Date: 2002-07-21 13:52
Rhythm and intonation are basics. If they were all there was to music, I could teach a monkey to play clarinet. Beauty of tone and expression separate the men from the boys. Marcellus isn't a legend because he played in tune. Anybody with an ounce of musical ability can do that.
ChattyClar
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Author: Larry Liberson
Date: 2002-07-21 15:05
Michael Woods says "Rhythm and intonation are basics. If they were all there was to music, I could teach a monkey to play clarinet. Beauty of tone and expression separate the men from the boys. Marcellus isn't a legend because he played in tune. Anybody with an ounce of musical ability can do that."
Of course they're basics. And I certainly don't dispute your comment re: tone and musicianship. But frankly, that comes after the basics -- especially in an audition situation.
You might be surprised at what "an ounce of musical ability" might buy. Most simply do not have control of the basics.
At any given orchestral audition (and I'm speaking of the majors, BTW) you just might -- if lucky enough -- get a handful or two candidates that can actually play in rhythm. Yes, out of um-teen tens of so-called people with "musical ability," very, very few really have the basics down.
It's rarer than you think. Sad, but true.
BTW, I have nothing but the highest admiration for Robert Marcellus. I spent a lot of my youth (not to mention all those years since) listening and learning from his example. However, had he not played in tune and with solid rhythm, you would have never had the opportunity to have heard him - despite his musical voice and interpretive gifts.
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