 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: carmen izzo
Date: 2002-07-09 19:45
Hi there,
The recent post on Orchestral Bass Clarinet brought up an issue that i believe deserves its own thread. As I have seen in the past, there are several ways in which music for the Bass clarinet is written. And in recent years of study, it has been brought to my attention that there are at least three styles of how the Bass Clarinet part is written. If this is unclear, I am referring to the fact that in some cases the Bass clarinet reads treble clef music, and the instrument reads his or her part up one octave-while in others they read their part in Bass Clef. I have also HEARD (this is something that passed by my ears and i may have just misheard) that there are some parts written in Bass Clef, but the clarinetist reads them as if they were in treble. Somebody PLEASE help me clear up these discrepancies. . . .
Thanks! Good clarinetting
CARMEN
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Author: Jean
Date: 2002-07-09 21:06
The bass clarinet is almost always written in treble clef. A couple of times I have run across it in bass clef in orchestral music, but not in band music. This is over 30 years of playing bass. Once I had a part in bass clef and written for an A not Bb bass. Apparently that happens in Russian and German orchestral music.
Jean
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-07-09 21:47
Bass clarinet parts in BAND literature are almost exclusively written in treble clef, one octave higher than played (in other words, the player plays the notes just as if he/she were playing a regular soprano clarinet) -- no transposition whatsoever is needed. However in ORCHESTRAL literature, the bass clarinet parts can be found a few different ways:
(a) Treble clef, written an octave higher than sounded, played right off the page just as for band music. THE MOST COMMON
(b) Treble clef, but written in the octave in which it is desired to be sounded (often occurs as an extension of a bass clef passage going up, in which too many leger lines would have to be used in bass clef), played ONE OCTAVE HIGHER than 'written' --- sounds confusing, but usually makes sense in the context of a bass clef phrase extension. Seen most often in German music such as Mahler, I believe, and maybe French music (e.g. Ravel), but generally pretty rare.
(c) Bass clef, where (for example) in the bass clef 2nd space C is written, one would play the same C as in the first leger-line below the treble clef staff (the lowest C available for those of us unfortunates who still don't own "low-C" bass clarinets!). This is FAIRLY COMMON in orchestral literature. USUALLY written for Bb-pitch instruments, except for some famous insanities such as Ravel's La Valse and some Mahler works written (usually in bass clef) for the mythical, almost non-existent bass clarinet in "A".
I hope I got it close to right, and didn't further confuse things with this pseudo-synopsis. Unfortunately the life of the orchestral bass clarinetist includes these irritating details, added to the frustrations of (a) rarely having a part to begin with, and (b) usually having an inconsequential or 'color' part consisting of just a few audible measures in an entire symphony or tone poem. But that's why we get paid the big bucks, right?
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Author: Willie
Date: 2002-07-10 03:27
The only bass clarinet parts I,ve seen in bass clef were from some peices published in England about 1976. Ironicly, all the low brass parts were in treble clef as found in Salvation Army books (also British). But hey, It sounded good. Just took a little getting used to.
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Author: William Hughes
Date: 2002-07-10 05:48
Carmen-
To play a bass clef part as if it were written in treble clef one needs an Eb instrument...such as the much under-appreciated EEb Contra Alto, and then you add three sharps (or reduce the flats by three, as the case may be). This allows Eb instrumnts to play bassoon, tuba, trombone, bass clef baritone, or other such instrumental parts.
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Author: Jerry McD
Date: 2002-07-10 13:45
Carmen,
Dave S. spelled most of it out very clearly. These issues come up almost exclusively in orchestral parts. If the part is written completely in treble clef, play as written (it sounds an octave lower). If the part is primarily in bass clef when and if it switches to treble cleff it is an extension to avoid legder lines (as Dave S. astutely mentioned ) and it needs to be played one octave higher than it is written. In bass clef the top space G is your open throat G. This is a lot more common than I first realized when I began playing a lot of bass. Plus the transposition from A. I'm not sure about the nationality breakdown of who wrote in what key in what clef but I can tell you that a lot of Mahler and Ravel as well as some Strauss and Tchaikovsky are written for bass clarinet in A. And some of that is in bass clef too. The half step transposition is important to get proficient at because if you like to play the little beast (eefer) you will come across orchestral parts written in D. I hope this helps.
Jerry McD.
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Author: jez
Date: 2002-07-10 14:04
My understanding is that bass-clarinet music is written in one of 3 ways.
(1) All treble clef. The notes sound a 9th lower than written. You play the same fingering as you would on the soprano.
(2) Bass clef. The note sounds 1 tone lower than written, as on the sop. but you've got to get used to reading them differently. If the range goes too high and forces the use of treble clef, the notes still sound 1 tone lower, so you're reading an octave different from the way you do normally.
(3) Bass clef as in (2), but when it goes high enough for treble, it reverts to transposing a 9th so you read the same fingering as sop. as in (1)
The trouble is that, while (1) is obvious, there is normally no indication to tell you whether (2) or (3) is in use. You've got to look for clues like a scale that suddenly jumps an octave in the middle, or notes that go far too high.
The bass in A is hardly a mythical beast. The Selmer I've played on was very solid. A lovely instrument, only down to E flat, but I think that composers using the A only used that range.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-07-10 14:08
David P,
Orchestral bass clarinet parts, when written in bass clef, are not in concert pitch (it's not like playing string bass or tuba parts on the contra clarinet in band) --- instead, as Jerry McD stated, the bass clef bass clarinets are transposed for Bb instruments if you're lucky, or for "A" bass clarinet if you're unlucky.
My brain hurts!
I'm still p****d off about having to transpose and write out by hand the entire b.c. part for Ravel's "La Valse" because at the time (and heck, even now) I couldn't sight-transpose a bass clef "A" part.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-07-11 18:24
Well, we may be totally wrong and full of hot air, but we throw a good line of BS, eh? As in politics, the important thing is to sound authoritative, even when (maybe especially when!) one has absolutely no idea what one is talking about...........
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2002-07-11 20:19
And then (having no idea etc.,) introduce a very controversial additional topic in the thread to take the heat off the original question. Bob A
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-07-11 22:00
Bob A,
You're absolutely right! And I too, love those fabric-and-titanium Schkleburbovich Pinnacle ligatures, how about you?
p.s. Bob, you may be interested in seeing yet ANOTHER stencil brand on a hard-rubber Malerne bass clarinet on eBay --- this time it's 'York' (which I believe was a legitimate manufacturer or saxes, at least, I believe they were in Grand Rapids, MI).
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2002-07-11 23:20
David S. --
A slight correction: It's Schurklebbovich (pronounced Flegel -- the b's are silent). And the titanium model is the Pinnacle II. I prefer the gossamer wings model rather than the fabric, but it's just one of those things.
I think this thread is unraveling, or maybe it's me.
Todd W.
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-07-12 14:12
It's just you...
But that's an interesting debate question; is the thread unraveling or isn't it? Shutting up now...
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