 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jez
Date: 2002-06-25 11:06
It occurs to me that the thinner air at high altitude must vibrate faster than at sea-level, so wind instruments must become sharper.
I've never experienced this and wonder if anyone who has can tell me; Is it a very marked effect? At what height do you start to notice? What is the highest regular concert venue?
jez
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Author: John Moses
Date: 2002-06-25 13:33
The Aspen Music Festival is at about 8,000 ft.
Played there years ago and found reed and breathing problems could be overcome with lighter equiptment and slowly adjusting to the thin air at that altitude.
Happy breathing,
JJM
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-06-25 13:49
That's the best "smiley" I can make today!!, Mark. Years ago I played a bari sax [much like an open sewer pipe!] in a big band in Silverton CO, el. 9300 ft., but, except for gasping for air, I really didn't notice pitch/tuning differences from playing in Durango [fire-stay-away-please] el. 6500, or our condo, el. 7500. Of course tuning a bass-range horn's lower notes is always a challenge [using beats], few and far-between! It may be that we all assumed the piano [only] was out of tune, which for dance-bands, is often the case!!! Also, I played sop. Bb and Eb in S's Great Rocky Mountain Brass Band [1800's band music!, it's annually, in Aug-Sept., great!], and also dont recall tuning problems, here tho, we all might have been evenly affected. Really, you may also need an elect. tuner to see! Don
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Author: rmk
Date: 2002-06-25 13:53
I used to play in an orchestra in Mexico City (about 8,000 ft.) and found that reeds became about 2 strenghths harder. Unfortunately at the first rehearsal we did Death and Transfiguration (lots of whole notes) and I was accustomed to using Olivieri 5's. I must have blacked out about 5 times!
We in the clarinet section found that a change of altitude of even 500 ft. made a difference in the reeds. As we had subscription series in many different halls (at different altitudes) we ended up making several sets of reeds.
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Author: hm
Date: 2002-06-25 14:27
Has anyone played in Salt Lake City? Same changes with regards to needing a lighter setup (as compared to sea level)? On the soprano clarinets as well as the larger ones (bass)?
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Author: William
Date: 2002-06-25 15:00
I think that the vibration rate of frequencies remains the same no matter what altitude you are at. So a tuning note at sea-level will vibrate no faster (or sharper) given at Mt Everests summit. The seemingly difference in equipement at varing altitude levels is probably more a result of oxygen deprevation rather than changes in the consistancy of the cane or grenadilla. The reed will seem harder because you have to work harder to breath and play it. Climate is also a big factor in the changes we all notice when traveling to a new playing venue. But altitude or varying air density having an effect on speed of vibrations, I think not.
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Author: thomas piercy
Date: 2002-06-25 15:38
I have noticed differences in reed resistance but certainly not pitch when in higher altitudes. Several years ago I was playing recitals throughout Italy and Switzerland; one day up in the Alps, a day or so later down south in Italy at sea level, then back up into the mountains. I had to have several reeds ready for each altitude change. I tried to adjust the reed choice for each situation instead of adjusting my embouchure or air support. The higher altitudes needed softer reeds.
Tom Piercy
thomaspiercy.com
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-06-25 16:25
Checking my Chem/Phys tables, it shows only a small influence of either [slight, normal] air temp or press variations upon sound VELOCITY [pitches, not mentioned]. I should think that a technical discussion of the Doppler Effect might have some words-of-wisdom for this question. Luck, Don
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Author: Steve White
Date: 2002-06-25 17:34
I spent 3+ years getting my BM perf. from Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff , AZ (7000 Feet, and very, very dry). I can report no problems with pitch like you say you would expect. Reeds generally behave a little harder there, but you get used to it. Within a semester I was back to playing V-12 4's and 4.5's on Bb and vandoren 4's and 5's on bass. In regards to Bari Sax, I would play fairly stiff stuff as well, but it varied depending upon the mouthpiece of course. It was an interesting experience comming back to the Los Angeles area after the higher alititude. I found that I was buying harder reeds for a little while, but then relaxed into the V-12 4's again. Didn't take long at all I must admit.
Hope that helps
Steve
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Author: Wes
Date: 2002-06-25 18:00
In theory, but probably not observed in practice, the pitch could be slightly different when blowing fresh oxygen-rich air into an instrument as compared to when blowing air with little oxygen in it at the end of a long tone. It is also interesting to observe the effects of playing an instrument when introducing helium into it through a hose to an upper tone hole. More fun!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-06-25 21:15
That is the title of a section of my best physics book [Greene], it has a Chapter "The Physical Basis of Music", much too complex to try to discuss here. My somewhat un-researched conclusions are that, with the possible exception of reed requirements at different elevations, there are no [maybe only very minor] differences in musical sounds related to differences in liveable altitudes and oxygen/nitrogen concentrations. Sure is interesting to attempt to consider the possibilities, tho!! Comments?? Don
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Author: William
Date: 2002-06-25 22:23
The "Dopplar Effect" is simply the raising or lowering of frequencies by varying speed of the source. If you are stationary, a train whistle from an approaching train will have it's frequencies accelorated, resulting in a higher percieved pitch. When the train passes and is going away, the frequencies reaching your ear will be decelorated and percieved to be lower. But the point here is that this effect in pitch change is caused by changes in velocity, not altitude. This principal is used by astronomers to extimate the rate by which distant galaxies are receeding from our own. The amount of difference between colors from one side of the galaxy disk to the other suggests it's speed of recession from our own. Darker colors have lower frequencies than brighter colors and that color shift ascross the galazxy disk lets astronomers calculate it's rate of recession from our planet. We are kind of lucky that they have not discovered that they are all headed in our direction. That would surely put reed problems in the minority of concerns.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-06-26 14:37
The real question is, how long can Mark restrain his urge to reply...
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-06-26 16:20
Mark already answered this quite some time ago, so those with a penchant for discovery will find the answer and formulae here by searching or perhaps will go on to better things and read a book on musical acoustics before they just keep on guessing ...
The original poster correctly assumed something happened and was wondering at which height it was noted (if at all), so the question (and responses to that particular question) was most proper. The rest of the "scientific" ones were less so, IMNSHO.
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Author: Rene
Date: 2002-06-28 05:59
Oh, Mark, what a frightening reply! Did I make a computation error? OK, let's be friends, and let me go back to clarinet playing at my level (of altitude, that is).
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