 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Sneakers
Date: 2002-06-20 06:28
I live in an area with two small communities 28 miles apart from each other. Neither community really has enough musicians by itself to support a band or an orchestra, but together there are plenty to make good sized groups. The problems - there are some people that are unwilling to drive 28 miles to a rehearsal(even though these same people probably drive the same 28 miles to Wal-Mart at least once a week). One year the community band alternated rehearsals between the two towns, some of the members would only come when rehearsals or performances were in their town. This is one of the frustrations and I am not very sympathetic, since I work in the town that is 28 miles away from where I live and I know the drive is not that bad. I also drive 180 miles one way to take clarinet lessons.
So if anyone is still reading, then there is the band's general philosophy of "we just want to have fun". I like to have fun too, but I have more fun if I sound good. Generally, members of the band feel no obligation to come to rehearsals or to practice on their own. So far we have only had three clarinets show up for rehearsals for our July 4th concert and the other two have only shown up once and not on the same night. One of them indicated she would only be able to come to one other rehearsal before the concert. Oh, did I mention that she hasn't played since high school, has college age kids, and doesn't remember all her fingerings? My main concern is what the 3 of us will sound like together, especially tuning wise.
Then there is just the lack of cooperation among the various musical groups or individuals in the community. Some members of the band don't seem to think the orchestra should exist, hence the emphasis on we just want to have fun, because the orchestra tried to be more serious this last year. Then there is the brass quintet that scheduled their rehearsals on the same night as the orchestra rehearsals, even though at least two members of the quintet play in the orchestra. Then there is the director of a local youth string orchestra that tells her students that they are not allowed to play in any other groups.
Then the orchestra recently decided to get a new director, because all but one member of the brass section said they would not return, if she continued as the conductor. I am BTW the new chairman of the board of the orchestra and wishing that I had had the common sense to refuse the position. Everyone's varied opinions are driving me bonkers, not only do they not agree with each other, but I don't think they even agree with themselves, i.e., Joe doesn't agree with Joe.
So there must be a question somewhere right? Well, let me think of one. Should I right a letter to the editor of both communities and express my frustrations with the lack of cooperation amongst the musicians in the area and risk being alienated by everyone(BTW - everyone is related here, except me)?? Or, should I just take my frustrations out on the BB? And, aren't you glad you live in Chicago, New York, St. Louis, etc, etc.??
DID ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY MAKE IT TO THE END OF THIS?
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Author: Eileen
Date: 2002-06-20 07:37
Sounds like a very frustrating experience! Tempting as it is, I'd hold off on the letter to the editor because it will probably come back to haunt you. But you might want to just write it all out in a draft anyway just to vent and to get your thoughts straight in your head. Sometimes that can be very therapeutic. Is there any chance of starting a smaller more serious-minded group? Can you organize a chamber orchestra or a wind ensemble? A quintet? Maybe starting out small with a good base and finding a compatible conductor will set a proper standard for future expansion.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-06-20 11:25
Maybe you should consider moving...away from both towns
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Author: Dan Borlawsky
Date: 2002-06-20 11:52
Sneakers, I sympathize with you. MOST (but not all) community groups are similar to this; the majority of members ARE just there to have fun, and don't want to be musically challenged or don't place a high priority on this activity. Many of them would quit if they felt pressured to attend or to raise their skill level. They're the casual/social/recreational players; they're not in it primarily for the musical experience.
Then you have those (a minority of people) who are serious about it (such as you!), and who feel frustrated when the others don't share your views. You are in it for the music. (Thank you!)
What can you do? A lot of the attitude within the groups is a result of the director's approach; if he/she can gradually bring about a more serious musical approach without driving players away, things could start to change. Or, if you detect that there is not much support for the current director, you could possibly feel out some of the better players (privately) about starting a new group with a somewhat more serious focus (you would need to make sure there was rehearsal space and the beginnings of a library, and opportunities to perform).
Lacking those possibilities, I agree with Bob: why not move to another locality? Most large cities have several community bands/orchestras from which to choose; some without any audition requirements, some for which you would have to show that you can play and are serious. How important is this to you?
Regards,
Dan
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-06-20 12:04
Sneakers...It sounds like a situation that will not immediately improve.
Personally, I would resign my position as chairman of the board, citing in generalities (no specific persons mentioned) your concerns and seeming lack of cooperation among the majority of members.
As tough as it is to walk away from a group, often one must not endure frustration (especially in a community group!) and not lower your personal standards as a musician to the point of dreading to play.
Take a well needed break from this situation with the hope that it will improve and your genuine desire to return when it does.
In the meantime, look for more rewarding playing opportunities - perhaps in the general vicinity of where you take your lessons. You might be fortunate enough to be able to do both on the same day.
Community groups are just that - community groups. When you definitely feel that the level of commitment by the members is not serious and not about to change, it's time to temporarily (if not permanently) move on...GBK
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-06-20 12:31
I find the "generalisation" about community groups here a little odd. As if there is something wrong with them or if their commitment to informed musical performance is somehow hampered.
I've play professionally and also devote a considerable amount of my energies to a couple of community musical activities. Whilst the orchestras I get to work with are not the Met orchestra - they are all excellent players with a keen sense of musicianship.
If there's one thing I detest from so called professionals is a snoby attitude to community theatre. My current musical society tours our productions all over Sydney to Nursing homes and retirement villages. In some cases the audiences we perform to have not heard live music in many years. I don't see any professional bodies here (in Sydney) with a community outreach programme such as this.
Having spent a considerable amount of time playing in professional orchestras - I now consider that my big enjoyment is to see the faces of the oldies light up to the beat of our music.
Go out there and take your music to a retirement village - you'll find a very critical and serious audience at hand. They don't like to be dished up crap for their meals OR for their entertainment.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2002-06-20 12:32
I'm in the same boat. Funny thing is, everybody has a paddle and seems willing to row... it's just that we can't agree on a direction or timing.
As the librarian (keeper of the charts) I have tried to get the members to take home the music and at least look it over.
(Mainly to avoid lugging all that paper around, it's heavy.)
I have one concert date for which I am unavailable and will fabricate two more, just to get out of this.
It's embarassing to be on stage with people that don't practice.
I can't speak for you, but I'm looking for a smaller group with players born within the same era.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2002-06-20 13:40
It appears to me that the main thing your group needs is leadership. If possible, I would first look for a conductor that commands the respect, interest and participation of the members -- someone that insists that people show up to rehearsals if they want to play in the concerts. A lot of adults are like kids -- they'll do whatever they want unless and until someone demands something more.
Of course, you, as chairman, should have and be able to wield some of that power as well. I would think it would be up to the board to set some minimal standards and enforce them. Sure, you may lose a few people, but I think a lot of people in the group will appreciate the new discipline and respond by putting in more effort. As it is, with the group in apparent disarray, no individual will want to put in a lot of effort to be good when the group as a whole appears hopeless. Once there is some direction in the group, the individuals involved will likely want to put in more effort because then they will have some pride in what they are doing.
To repeat, what it appears your group needs is effective leadership and you appear to be in the leadership position. If you can't or won't lead, find someone who can and will.
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Author: William
Date: 2002-06-20 14:27
In the small town that I came from, the community band was having membership problems similar to yours--lack of dedication to rehearsals, performances, not practicing, etc. The director (unpaid volunteer position), looking for someway to spark incentive and commitment among the band members, scheduled a band trip to Europe, with a full intinerary of concerts and travel extras. The bands membership practically doubled overnight and every member became immediantly concerned about "sounding good 'over there'"--translated, they started practicing more. That was ten years ago, and while some of the initial enthusiasm has subsided, the bands level of performance remains much improved along with it's increased membership at rehearsals and concerts. Rule of Thumb--put enough frosting on the cake, and everyone will eventually want to take a taste and keep coming back for more.
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Author: William
Date: 2002-06-20 14:42
Also, there is probably a community (adult) band or orchestra in the city that you travel to for your clarinet lessons. Investigate joining one of those. That's what I did for my high school years. Our band was "not too good", so I joined an adult band in the city where I took my weekly lesson. Routine was, school or work all day thursday, drive (my parents, before I was old enough) 50 miles to the city, 6:30 lesson, 7:30-9 rehearsal, return home, hit the sack and back to "small town" next day. BTW--travel hs remained a musical "habit" for me as I still travel 90 miles (one way) every week, to play with a good regional orchestra that pays per service. Where there is a will, "the way" will be discovered--just have to look beyond your own horizan. Good luck with your community group and your clarinetting.
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Author: Jean
Date: 2002-06-20 15:00
Oh my can I relate. I am on the substitute list of our local community band because it drives me nuts that this group just doesn't get any better, despite playing as often as they do. Most of the members are old(er) and have the "we have always done it like this" attitude. I don't know if they just lack talent or don't hear well enough to play any better. They took a trip to China a few years ago and naturally a bunch of people went along as ringers.
The funniest thing with this group is this: I have a background in radio and have (I think) a very nice voice for announcing, etc. When the guy who normally does the announcing is away I am asked to come in and do their announcing. I was asked to do their 4th of July celebration a few years ago and the announcer had a hissy fit.
BTW, he has a dreadful voice and misprononces a lot of composers' names.
I guess what I am saying is groups sadly are much like yours. I am working on a master's degree and play with the top college group. I get my fix with them. And don't get me started on our local symphony.
I have burned my own bridges in the past and wouldn't recommend a letter to the editor. Write a letter so you can vent, but DON'T send it.
Jean
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Author: William Hughes
Date: 2002-06-20 15:01
Sneakers:
I feel very fortunate after studying your situation (yes, I read the whole thing!). A few personal observations:
1. It's not the ages of the musicians. Our community band ranges from 15 to 75+ and all are treated with equal respect.
2. It's not the distance. Only a minority of our band lives in the community. The rest of us commute 10 to 25 miles one way to practices.
3. Airing your complaints in public won't help.
4. I agree with Don P., it takes leadership...patient, thoughtful, consistent leadership that recognizes both the strengths and the weaknesses of the musicians, provides an appropriate level of challenge and fosters pride in the successes of the group.
5. Ask the members what they are willing to commit to for the improvement of the band. If you have a solid core who favor a more disciplined approach, stick with it. If the majority want to blow off the practice time and slop through the concerts, pack your bags. Good luck.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-06-20 15:08
Yes, Sneakers, read all of yours, but sorry, others, will need more time, tho a scan [VG, William!] gives me the gist [not jest!]. Back in the "dark ages", 50s-80s, I was alternately treasurer/president of our small struggling orchestra, learned to listen!, sometimes frustrating! Know what you mean. Three/four of us commute regularly to Tulsa [comm band], 40+ miles for once-a-week rehearsal, and frequent concerts, at the many "retirement homes" and civic get-togethers. I've made it a practice to give advanced warning to our [band] conductors [I am usually the only bass {or alto} clarinetist], when I feel that local musical activities need me worse, as right now there are conflicts with rehearsals/performances of a local musical and the band's concerts. All of us are highly devoted to these musical activities, hate to miss [even early morning] gigs, and are frequently thanked for it. Struggling along, enjoying it!! Don
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Author: Wes
Date: 2002-06-20 16:45
It could be a little worse. A community band in Tokio, ND had an alcoholic for a conductor, drunk while conducting, when I was a kid in the 30's. In nearby Sheyenne, the "native American" band from nearby Fort Totten played for parades and also did war dances.
Sometimes, the school system provides the best audiences. This week, I played three paid concerts for elementary school children on the oboe. These kids are good listeners and responsive. Afterwards, they come up to hold your hand and they remember your name.
The advice above is very good, but there doesn't seem to be any easy way out. The social players in community groups do not appear to have a musical hearing apparatus developed. They don't want to waste their time on practice since they can't tell the difference and have no teacher.
Perhaps one could determine which players are musical and then try to organize a group around them with special arrangements or modified standard arrangements to cover the missing parts. Could some of the new software help in developing arrangements for unusual instrumentation? Good luck!
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Author: connie
Date: 2002-06-20 17:09
The essence of a community band is that it contains people of all ages, many ability levels (perhaps not rank beginners), and all walks of life. The music is what brings us together. We too have had problems with "drop-ins" (absent more often than present) but when our new director said he wanted everyone at every rehearsal, he almost got lynched, because adults want to be treated like adults. That director quit after a year, and the issue hasn't been raised again.
The reality is that most of us have day jobs and families, and things will come up that preclude consistent practice, not to mention our participation in a given rehearsal or concert. We deal with it by bringing in ringers and adjusting the music we play.
I don't think you can convince people who think 28 miles is too far to drive that it isn't. If it were me (thank God it isn't) I would probably start by thanking the members who show up regularly and letting them have more input into the music played. I don't suppose you could build a barn for a practice hall halfway between?
(lol)
good luck
connie
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Author: Sneakers
Date: 2002-06-21 04:40
Thanks to all of you for reading and responding. I think I was able to get my venting out pretty well here on the bulletin board. I fully intend to do the best I can as chairman of the symphony board to help the orchestra be successuful, despite the various challenges.
Where on earth do you get the money to go to Europe and China? We have a hard time getting money to buy music, much less make trips anywhere outside a 60 mile radius of our area.
Connie - perhaps the barn idea isn't too bad. There are several cow pastures between the two towns, maybe the cows wouldn't mind if we joined them.
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Author: William
Date: 2002-06-21 18:48
"Where on earth do you get the money to go to Europe and China?" In the community band that I refered to, the members each paid their own expenses. The group did get a "package " deal via the travel agent. As an example, eight years ago, when I went to Rome on a ten-day concert/excursion tour with our Municipal Band, the cost per person was about $1600.00, all inclusive. However, the whole point of my posting was that you have to discover (or invent) some incentives (reasons) for people to want to join, play and perform well to really make any group "go." Everyone needs a goal to work for--foreign trip, concert series, money, applause, etc-- in order to maintain interest and encourage self-improvement--ie, practice. Without a purpose or reward, motivation is difficult. I love those old T-shirts that said, "Tune It, or DIE" Great "incentive" there, huh???? Again, good luck--where there is a will, the way will be found.
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Author: Toby Gibbon
Date: 2002-06-22 03:50
I guess I'm the lucky one here. The band I am in is wonderfull. The Rhorersville Band has been around since 1837 and has played countinsley ever since. The derictor has been in the band for 62 years,and has been the derictor for 42. We have 35 members who all work hard to sound their best. We play 35-40 engagements a year and some of thoese dates they have played for more than 50 years. I dont meam to bragg but I am very proud of these dedicated friends.
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2002-06-22 17:54
"The Rhorersville Band has been around since 1837 and has played continuously ever since."
And, boy, are they tired! (And old.) :+))
Todd W.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-06-23 13:42
Rite, Todd, but still good players?? Our Tulsa comm band, started in the 1930's, has one original member, a cl/sax playing "character", of my age! We are still trying to play it correctly, with some success. My main problems are earlier exhaustion, hearing, eyesight and lack of attention to the details. Still fun tho. Don
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Author: Marcel Benoit
Date: 2002-06-24 05:00
ah yes small pool big egos a common problem in the comedy and madness we endure in music
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