 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Seamus Kirkpatrick
Date: 2002-06-21 00:16
Sorry this is long, but I thought most detail possible... thanks.
I own a Buffet Bb clarinet serial number 232321, which I believe places it around the age of twenty years old.
In the last few years I have had a problem with it not retaining oil. Regardless of how I oil it, (including for example oiling it over a period of a week to ensure that it has utterly enough oil), after an amount of playing (perhaps just a few hours) it completely dries out and turns a light brown/white colour in the barrel and upper joint.
I have previously used a commercially available bore oil on it and have lately (on the reccomendation of a repairman) changed to cold pressed almond oil applied with a goose feather which has slightly improved the situation, but not much. To stop the instrument discolouring alarmingly, it requires almost daily oiling.
There are two incidents in the past which may have contributed to this situation (both having occurred when I was younger and stupider).
I performed at an open air theatre production in the evenings for about a week, in extreme cold and humidity/fog.
I was once sold valve oil in a similar looking bottle to bore oil and didn't realise for a week, by which time I'd already used it once...
I've spoken to various repair people about it, and none of them have been able to recommend anything apart from oiling it lots and I have also noticed that the areas of the bore most affected are quite rough to the touch and not as smooth as the rest of the bore of the clarinet.
Does anybody have any ideas?
Thanks
Seamus
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-06-21 01:03
First, I would contact Omar Henderson (Dr's Products)about your situation.
Secondly, I would recommend his bore oil followed by a waxing of the outside body with natural wax. I believe he has developed one of those also, but I use natural bees' wax.
Also, I don't advise oiling the bore just after playing or prior to performing. You don't need to trap any moisture in the wood.
Look him up in the sponsor's section of the BB.
All the best,
jbutler
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Author: Linus Travelli
Date: 2002-06-21 01:36
i dont oil my clarinets until they look dry from the outside. maybe once every 10-15 yrs
i've had abou 30 horns, 0 cracks
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-06-21 01:47
Oh, and another thought....perhaps your clarinet is unstained! That would cause it to look dark while the oil was on the surface and then fade to a more brownish color. I agree with Linus. One usually doesn't need to oil the clairnet until overhaul time when it is done by the technician.
jbutler
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Author: ken
Date: 2002-06-21 03:35
Like Linus, I have owned many Buffet clarinets and have been very sparing with the bore oil. Never had any crack (15), but I guess Sydney's climate could have a lot to do with that.
Perhaps you should leave off on the oiling; if you're concerned about roughness in the top joint bore and barrel an expert technician might be able to polish the area for you... a call to Brannen's???
I once asked my teacher, who worked in Paris orchestras and selected many clarinets at the Buffet factory, about oiling the bore. He said that Robert Carree (sp?) told him not to worry too much about it (how much is 'too much'?), but to be sure that the tenon ends, particularly at the top joint barrel juncture, were greased.
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Author: susannah
Date: 2002-06-21 08:21
My clarinet is exactly the same, it goes dry looking straight after I play, no matter how much oil I put on it. However, I have given up worrying about it, as it doesn't seem to be going to crack. I am also from australia ... interesting. My advice would be just to keep an eye on it.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2002-06-21 13:40
I would assume that there is nothing wrong with a brown clarinet. It is probably just showing the natural color of the wood. A lot of today's clarinets are made of wood that is not actually black and stained to make them black. So, if the color really bothers you, maybe there is some way to get it restained, but personally, I wouldn't bother.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-06-21 14:01
It is also possible that you hae used an inappropriate, natural, unstabilized oil which has polymerized, turning to a semi-rough, coating resembling half-set varnish!!! (I've forgotten if it is whitish-brown or not.)
I've seen this from both almond oil and raw linseed oil for starters. It is very difficult to remove. A good reason to stick to Omar's well researched formulations.
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Author: Fred Richardson
Date: 2002-06-22 20:59
I also own a Buffet clarinet and oil it regularly. I find when I play in cool moist conditions I need it more and that my pads seat better when the clarinet is well oiled. ( I recently switched to Dr. Norbeck's synthetic pads and am very happy with the smaller ones on the upper half of the clarinet. ) I play upwards of 50 hours a week outdoors in the summer ( in Minneapolis ) and the weather and sun definitely have an effect. Technically oiling once per year is recommended, but I find nearly monthly in the summer is needed for my horn.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-06-22 23:17
The only way that pads could seat better after oiling is if you get oil on the face where the pad closes, and there were already slight pad leaks from irregular tone hole edges, poor quality pads, poorly installed pads, or faulty mechanism.
I cannot see oil on pads as a good idea, especially synthetic pads. Most oil will leve a residue, or become thick with evaporation, and CAUSE pad sticking.
Oils tend to make the membrane on conventional pads hard and brittle, compromising their effective life.
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Author: Seamus Kirkpatrick
Date: 2002-06-23 22:16
A nice man at alt.music.clarinet has posted the following, which seems to have done the trick (I'll be checking out Omar Henderson's stuff as well though)....
cheers
Seamus
On 20 Jun 2002 17:09:16 -0700, stuff@uq.net.au (Seamus Kirkpatrick)
wrote:
>Sorry this so long, but I thought as much detail as possible would be
>best.... thanks.
>
>I own a Buffet Bb clarinet serial number 232321, which I believe
>places it around the age of twenty years old.
>
>In the last few years I have had a problem with it not retaining oil.
>Regardless of how I oil it, (including for example oiling it over a
>period of a week to ensure that it has utterly enough oil), after an
>amount of playing (perhaps just a few hours) it completely dries out
>and turns a light brown/white colour in the barrel and upper joint.
The discolouration you see isn't the wood - it's deposits of calcium
etc. from the condensation and saliva. It's called 'scale' - the
stuff you get in a kettle
To some degree its relatively harmless - though if allowed to build up
it will clog the pores of the wood and in extreme cases narrows the
effective bore of the instrument - particularly the tone holes.
The reason it appears to keep coming back it that it never really goes
away. When you oil the bore, the scale absorbs a small amount of oil -
but as soon as the oil evaporates the scale returns to its typical
off-white colour.
The " Bodger's " trick is to run a black stain down the bore - hey
presto!, no more whitish scale!
Oiling the bore is less about ensuring a lustrous gleam to the wood
and more about ensuring the layer of wood just below the surface is
kept supple and able to act as a barrier to prevent deeper
waterlogging and scaling.
This is one of the reasons I regard oiling the bore as an essential
maintenance practice.
>
>I have previously used a commercially available bore oil on it and
>have lately (on the reccomendation of a repairman) changed to cold
>pressed almond oil applied with a goose feather which has slightly
>improved the situation, but not much. To stop the instrument
>discolouring alarmingly, it requires almost daily oiling.
I'd stop oiling the bore immediately. It's possible to overdo oiling -
the whole idea behind it is to help the wood regulate the passage of
air and moisture through it. Too much oil and you'll block the pores
as effectively as too much water. In extreme cases the wood becomes
oil-logged - and that's nasty.
To put it into perspective, a professional player in an average
climate might expect to have to oil the bore every three months or so.
>
>There are two incidents in the past which may have contributed to this
>situation (both having occurred when I was younger and stupider).
>I performed at an open air theatre production in the evenings for
>about a week, in extreme cold and humidity/fog.
>I was once sold valve oil in a similar looking bottle to bore oil and
>didn't realise for a week, by which time I'd already used it once...
Neither of those two incidents will be responsible for the problems
you have now - and although the valve oil incident is potentially more
serious I doubt that a single application will have harmed the wood in
any way.
Had you continued to use it though the wood would have begun to swell.
>
>I've spoken to various repair people about it, and none of them have
>been able to recommend anything apart from oiling it lots and I have
>also noticed that the areas of the bore most affected are quite rough
>to the touch and not as smooth as the rest of the bore of the
>clarinet.
Well, there's a guide to oiling the bore in the Handy Hints section of
my website - which explains the pros and cons and gives some pointers
as to oil types and methods of use.
There are a few things that can be done to alleviate your problems.
You can have the scale chemically removed - though this has
implications for the wood, as you'd imagine. It's a procedure that
requires great care - so it's a job for a professional.
It can be polished off, which also helps to smooth off rough areas in
the bore - though there are only so many times this procedure can be
carried out.
This may be your best option. As you've noticed, the scale sticks to
rough areas. This is where the grain is raised, which provides a 'key'
for the scale to form on. Smooth off these rough areas and the
moisture will be more inclined to flow on down the bore rather than
sit there and deposit scale.
It's often beneficial to treat such rough areas with a wax...and it's
about the only time I would consider the use of a drying oil ( such as
linseed ) to help consolidate specific anomalies in the grain.
You could have the bore scoured - but this is an extreme method that's
best suited for complete contamination rather than on specific areas
of the bore - and again, it needs to be done with extreme care.
I assume you dry the instrument thoroughly after playing? This will
help to some degree, though it won't stop formation of scale during
use. You may or may not find that using a cotton pull-through will
help matters as its structure is coarser than chamois or silk.
The use of a nylon bottle brush occasionally will help to loosen newly
formed particles of scale.
Hope that puts your mind at ease.
Regards,
--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-06-24 14:17
Omar Henderson has a product for removing 'scale' from mouthpieces, where it is more common. It may be ap[propriate to drench a 'pad saver' in it and leave that inside the bore for a while to 'disolve' it. Omar has done enough scientific research in this area to probably tell you what treatments would be (in)appropriate with timber.
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