 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: RogerD
Date: 2002-06-09 19:48
A clarient grad student once told me that US clarinetists try for the German sound using French instruments.
This still seems like a logical contradiction to me.
Any comments?
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Author: nzdonald
Date: 2002-06-09 20:06
you can try to get whatever sound you like using whatever instrument you like and be happy or unhappy with the result- logic doesn't really enter into it. This sounds like a generalisation that, as generalisations go, is not far from the money. I'd probably avoid generalising about something like that.... but if i was going to then i'd go with this one!
But ok, i'll try my own one. " As far as "American sound" is concerned i'd generalise thus- a clear sound with a strong core to the sound but also attention to the ring/upper harmonics." This doesn't really describe the sound very well, but give an idea about priorities and the most general characteristics. This also describes lots of players i've heard who weren't from the US.
i like the original generalisation though, and i don't really think there's anything particuarly illogical about it.
donald
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Author: LaLa
Date: 2002-06-09 21:55
I think in general most clarinetist in American want the warmth and depth of the German sound and the ring and color of the French sound.
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Author: john gibson
Date: 2002-06-10 00:43
It all sounds like racial profiling to me.....effective in law enforcement....but......
Each musician needs to find his/her own sound based on what they like or are influenced by....regardless of german...enlgish... french....zimbawan...or martian....green or purple. What sounds good. Clarinetists seem to spend too much time worrying about insignificant BS instead of developing an individual sound....it's the "reed syndrome" and too much anal retention that gets you in a
bad "groove".
Understand that in addition to "playing", I make my living as a radio talk show host....therefore have an opinion on everything.
I don't mean to offend....just mirror back what I see as too much "self examination", which can be a detriment to moving forward.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-06-10 00:52
In my estimation, you either sound good or you don't. If you sound good, keep it up - if you don't, you gotta work on it.
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Author: LaLa
Date: 2002-06-10 02:48
that's just it ron b. everyone has some preconceived notion of what sounds good and it's not the same to everyone...
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Author: IHL
Date: 2002-06-10 11:13
heres one: what 'sound' does one play when playing his or her clarinet on a ship in the middle of the ocean?
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Author: David Dow
Date: 2002-06-10 13:26
Generalizations about sound within America are quite difficult becuase there is wide variance from one place to the next. I can think of two examples: the style of Harold Wright and the style of Bob Marcellus which shows how diverse individuality is and can be! This is what the world is all about...
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-06-10 18:01
good one, IHL - love it 
exactly, LaLa, David. there is no such thing as the "(whatever) sound". i don't mean to be rude but, in my opinion, the general audience is as good a judge as anyone about what sounds good. who else are we playing for anyway?
up front, you're my best audience. in the audience, i'm your best listener :]
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2002-06-10 19:06
Even ex-Berlin phil soloists lament Berlin phil has lost its unique sound by so-called music cosmopolinanism or globalism.However, they do not recall the traditinal Berlin sound as German but as Berliner Philharmoniker sound.
Daivid Dow wrote:
>Generalizations about sound within America are quite difficult becuase there is wide variance from one place to the next.
America's states are rather characterized by the original countries from where peaple immigrated there. Pittsburgh symphony sounds like German. Philadelphia sounds like rather English. New York sounds very mingled. LA sounds totally different.
Drucker's sound does not sound like German and he does not try to do that.
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Author: LaLa
Date: 2002-06-10 19:37
I think the NYPHil purposely designed and orchestra that reflects their city and way of life, diverse! I recall that on their website at one point and time they pointed out the different countries that were represented within their orchestra. Those who love diversity and the beauty it encompasses would be quite enamored by such a "melting pot". As far as Hiroshi's mention of Drucker's sound, i will make no comment in regards to that. :-)
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Author: nzdonald
Date: 2002-06-10 21:31
all interesting comments- one similarity between Wright and Marcellus is that they both had lots of the (oft discussed) "ring" in their sound that is often described as "brightness". I know a number of players who consider those two to have an overly bright sound and to be "boring players".... is it a coincidence that the people who express this opinion seem invariable to have studied in England or with English players? Sure they may have a personal preference for a "fat mellow sound" but the example and influence of their teachers seems to have had some unifying effect......
i don't really believe that the "National schools" survive in the 21st century, or that it has been possible to accurately generalise about an "American school". However, there HAVE been national schools in the past and while they seem to be disolving, the remnants are there (very obvious in some places, less so in others). Also, there is a style of playing that may not "blanket" the whole of the US, but is certainly more prevalent there than anywhere else (and i like it!)
but anyway, i've got to get to work
it's true- there are people who think Marcellus sounds awful! sad, but true.
donald
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Author: Todd Wees
Date: 2002-06-11 02:15
john gibson wrote: ". . . insignificant BS . . ."
Would that be Britney Spears?
Oops, I did it again!
Todd W.
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Author: John Gibson
Date: 2002-06-11 05:35
FINALLY...a woodwinder that understands! Congratulations Todd W.,...You've just won a coffee mug and T-shirt. Seriously. Send me your address and I'll send you some radio stuff.
You know...in my earlier post...i mentioned that clarinet players are anal retentive....the posts continue to show that. Robert M., this and Drieker that...blah blaah blah....Artie Shaw is the one you should listen to. Not just for the clarineting but for the insight into music. The clarinet is just a means to an end. "IT'S THE MUSIC, STUPID!", as the Clinton folks would've said had it been in the postings here. Classical music is very beautiful....but only the composer has the real "feel" for it....you guys need to listen to Sydney and Artie...and Pee Wee. Play how you feel not how it's written. You're either a musician or a "reader".
I bet I've ticker off quite a few of you. Oh well.....
John
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Author: nzdonald
Date: 2002-06-11 19:38
hey, i think Artie Shaw is "way cool", and he makes great music- as do/did any number of past greats... (Shaw's still alive though, right? he writes books now?) it's just that i'm more likely to get a job in an orchestra playing like RM than AS, just because i write about RM on a posting doesn't mean that i spend my creative life trying to be exactly like him.... though i have at various times spent a lot of time trying to work out what he does that turns everybody on, man.
a nice point John G, but what we write here is only a small part of what we do every day, if we want to get down to the nitty gritty on how some cat toots his horn, then it's a bit unfair for you to tell us that's "anal retentive", i mean, you don't know what else goes down once we've unplugged......
enjoy the mothership
donald
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Author: David Dow Symphonia nb
Date: 2002-06-12 12:55
Well it seems that alot of things have to change and do with time. As for Drucker's sound it has evooved quite alot over the years and I will give you an example; berstein CBC 1957 Rimsky Korsakov Scherherazade and go to his recent DG record of the Copeland concerto. His earlier sound was alot brighter and his more recent sound is certainly deeper. Having studied the clarinet in Paris for a few years I will also say the same will hold true for a number of fine solists there, that playing means evolving and sometimes this is good. Guy Desplus in the early 60s had a thinner bright sound but by the late 70s a more darker homogenous sound emerged whether from a change in ideas or philosophy. The thing that I truly love about the American school is an extreme idiivduality that emerges in its clarinetists and this may be from influences like the pioneers who forged a home from a barren landscape. Soloists like Stoltzman and David Shifrim could be polar opposites yet only come from this land....playing music in a setting is as much to do with our sound as our equipment.... and factors like language defintiely figure prominently into this equation....French solists have adopted a differnet sound from the previous generation and the same holds true for England as well. A number of french solists who I have studied and spoken with have as their personal ideal Karl Leister and Prinz of the Vienna Phil so this is quite a changge. Vandoren has also fostered a strong development in the are of mouthpieces so to catregorically say you play on a Vandoren does'nt mean your on a 5RV like it did when I started. As for the Berlin Phil it has always been a cosmpoloitan orchestra with a worldy look at its repetoire and the NY Phil is much the same....solo players in Berlin in the 60s came from Russia, Scandanavia and Switzerland(concertmaster Michel Schwabe is from Switzerland and jewish during the 50s and 60s). So the idea in Berlin of tradition is great, but certainly the ideal of Great playing is more important. Von Karajan was also abloe to choose players from a wide spectrum and even felt thaqt Dennis Brain would be a good solist for Berlin yet fate interjected. For anyone interested in the Berlin Karajan years the Osborne book is essential to breaking down the pan German myth. Although it is off topic the american school with people like Wright and Marcellus really took off, and this is a tribute to not only great playing but teaching.
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Author: William
Date: 2002-06-12 14:32
Ah YES!!!! Duke Ellington is saying it again--"If it sounds good, it is good." We just need to listen to the wisdom of his simple statement and play from our hearts--not from our zip codes.
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