 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mark M
Date: 2002-06-11 04:48
Not exactly a clarinet question, however, someone here probably knows. My wife is looking for a piano. I have the idea that perhaps a keyboard maybe a better investment because of all the electronic things (MIDI) etc that can be done. I know about weighted keys etc. My question is can a cheaper keyboard be used with computer software to achieve the same results as an expensive keyboard? Some of the keyboards I've "tried" did not impress me. I poked the "clarinet button" and it did NOT sound like a clarinet. The salesman asked me if I knew what a clarinet sounded like. Ha Ha. He was a little embarrased at the answer.
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Author: Ilkka
Date: 2002-06-11 07:35
In an accordion one of the registers is called clarinet. Also violin etc. You need a lot of imagination........
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Author: IHL
Date: 2002-06-11 07:54
stm* at that last bit of Mark's post -- I would have loved to see the expression change on that saleman's face!
try a Yamaha Clavinova. We own one and the voices (piano, Epiano, harpsichord, strings, mechanical organ) are quite realistic. Even the keyboard's reaction to touch changes with each voice!
* smile to myself. more honest than the overused lol.
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Author: Edzer Pebesma
Date: 2002-06-11 10:19
I bought a piano with a silent mechanism in it, so it's basically both a piano and a keyboard. I find myself practising on the piano for 99% of the time. It's a whole different instrument...
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Author: Roger the other one
Date: 2002-06-11 10:20
If your Wife is a Pianist,only a Piano will satisfy her --- a Keyboard is what it is --- an electronic gadget. If you want a Clarinet sound you play the Clarinet. If you want to fiddle with Music on a computer you get a Keyboard. I suggest you get a Piano for the Pianist in your Wife and a Keyboard for the fiddler in you.
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Author: David Stringer
Date: 2002-06-11 12:07
I have "all-of-the-above". Before you make a choice, you should get your hands on something equal to a Yamaha P-80, with the graded action (or is it "graduated"?). I'm sorry, but I don't know the competition's equivalent models.
This is the closest thing to a piano that I have ever played. There are still issues that make a real acoustic piano sound and feel different, but these are getting so close that I wouldn't buy an acoustic piano today. If you don't like the sounds, midi and an outboard sound module can take care of that.
As far as the "fiddling" goes, I agree. Playing a clarinet or violin (for instance) from a keyboard is best done with an organ-style synth keyboard with a pitch wheel and after-touch, and you don't need 88 weighted keys, either!
David
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-06-11 12:16
My wife plays piano and we got rid of the grand several years ago. We bought a Yamaha P-10 several years ago(entry level "good" keyboard at the time) and she played it with both the internal and Yamaha 10watt external speakers....it was only "ok" but far from the sound of a grand. We also have a "el cheapo" Casio with midi hookup and it's "so-so" but good for doing midi stuff. Last year we bought a Roland "top of the line" and also a big Roland speaker. It's every bit as good sounding as a grand and my wife loves it. Also, we hooked up the old Yamaha to the Roland speaker and it sounds very very good. The speaker is of utmost importance to the sound you get from any keyboard. Personally I think you will find that it's almost impossible to get a "decent" clarinet sound from any electronic equipment unless you spend lots of dollars and then even questionable. Of course I haven't really tried seriously to get clarinet sound from midi or keyboards.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-06-11 12:48
If you're good at a piano only a grand (using gravity) will suffice. The keyboards are nice, but MIDI is incredibly limited in dynamic range, no "real" half or quarter pedaling, etc. For fun or practice the better keyboards are close to average upright piano quality.
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Author: Matt
Date: 2002-06-11 16:55
I looked carefully at electronic pianos a few years ago. At that time I felt that the best, most realistic unit was the Baldwin. It didn't have all the bells & whistles of the Yamaha but it's piano/harpsichord/organ programs sounded very nice.
I like the idea of the electronic units as you can practice without interfering with anyone else.
MOO,
Matt
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Author: Josh Schultze
Date: 2002-06-11 19:43
I am fortunate to know many pianists. All of whom would much rather play on a grand piano: Steinway, Bechstein or Bösendorfer. The mere mention of thinking that a synthesizer could even satisfy a true pianist's exquisitely honed musical tastes is considered anathema.
In consession, one friend who owns a Bösendorfer Imperial, the one with an extra octave in the bass notes, has a Korg synthesizer for MIDI purposes and for practicing late at night. He plays the synthesizer and the midi reads what he plays as notes and transcribes it into Finale or Sibelius. However this seemingly simple process took months to initially set up: calling computer tec, apple, Korg and every other tech specialist in New York city.
After it was all set and working for two years, my friend decided to get a cd burner. But inorder to use his new cd burner he had to upgrade his system. I counseled him against it but he went ahead. Then he spent the next four months redoing the entire Midi setup process: hiring computer tech, calling manufacturers of the peripherial devices.
So unless you are EXTREMELY proficient at computer hardware and software, or have access to a tech person willing to spend many hours figuring out the specific configurations.
I would suggest getting a piano. In a pinch he has simply recorded a piece of music on a tape recorder and passed it to a music student with perfect pitch who then transcribed it. There are always minor prasing corrections but compared to the headache he will have when he next upgrades is system, I belive in this case, simpler is better.
Good Luck
Josh
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-06-11 21:06
"If you're good at a piano ..."
The Roland set up suffices...
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-06-11 23:51
Speaking of keyboards which "sound" like clarinets...
My accordionist friend and I blend remarkably well. I don't know if she uses the "clarinet" stop on her accordion, but we really do sound like a clarinet at times and like an accordion at other times. Go figure!
Katrina
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-06-12 01:46
Bob wrote:
>
> "If you're good at a piano ..."
>
> The Roland set up suffices...
Bull. There are many "OK" setups, but there's nothing electronic that resembles a grand piano.
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Author: Jim E.
Date: 2002-06-12 04:45
After looking at many options including upright acoustic pianos, we went with a Korg electronic a year and a half ago. Its NOT the Steinway stage grand we have access to at our church, but it is quite decent for practice and playing for enjoyment. The advantages... Space, it fits in a 10 X 10 foot room with a Murphy bed and a fold into a cabinet sewing machine; cost, at around $1300 it was less than an upright; weight! it won't strain the floor joists; no need for tuning, we live in a variable climate and use central air; it will transpose to play in key with our clarinets! Yes, it has MIDI, no we've never used it, the computer is in another room!
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-06-12 14:17
Mark wrote: Bull
That's a riot,Mark, and Real Cool too. There's no question that nothing is equivalent to a grand for sound quality. My point was that the Roland setup "suffices" i.e. meets our needs.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-06-12 15:27
Bob wrote:
>
> There's no question that
> nothing is equivalent to a grand for sound quality. My point
> was that the Roland setup "suffices" i.e. meets our needs.
<b>Your</b> needs ...
I happen to like a number of keyboards (some now even have adjustable touch weight) but none yet have the mechanics and sound to meet the needs of a serious pianist. A serious musician - yes, in many cases. But pianists are a lot more particular in their instruments.
Since this thread started as piano vs. keyboard, let me say this:
They are two different instruments, and shouldn't be confused with each other. Would we say bassoon vs. trombone just because they both have mouthpieces?
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-06-12 17:55
Mark wrote:Your needs
I don't know where this exchange is going and why you have taken such exceptions to my opinions and experience. Maybe you know the man and his wife better than I do. He said his wife was looking for a piano and that's where my wife and I started our recent search.
There are reasons why a grand piano(first choice of my wife the pianist) didn't fill all our needs both musical and otherwise. My wife finally agreed to audition the Roland which was hooked up to Roland's KC-100 speaker. The sound knocked her socks off and as a former grand piano player she is 100% satisfied with the combo....which also can be moved relatively easy compared to a grand...and takes up much less space. We're happy with it....and I thought our experience might be helpful to the originator of the question.
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Author: Sarah
Date: 2002-06-12 20:03
I'm not sure about this....but the last time I checked a bassoon, it didn't have a mouthpiece. lol
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-06-12 20:25
Bob wrote:
>
> Mark wrote:Your needs
>
> I don't know where this exchange is going and why you have
> taken such exceptions to my opinions and experience.
I said:
"If you're good at a piano ..." (a grand is a requirement, not an option. An upright is limited; an electronic instrument more so)
You said:
"The Roland set up suffices..."
which is what I take objection to. If you're an experienced pianist the Roland will most assuredly not suffice as a primary instrument - it is very limited as a piano replacement. It is very nice as an electronic instrument.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-06-12 20:25
Sarah wrote:
>
> I'm not sure about this....but the last time I checked a
> bassoon, it didn't have a mouthpiece. lol
Touché ;^)
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Author: RonD
Date: 2002-06-12 22:28
I have been studing piano(keyboard?) for the last year and I use a Yamaha P-200 Keyboard, I would rather have a good Grand Piano but finding a decent one for less than $5,000.00 would be a good trick to pull off.
The bottom line is I can afford the keyboard and at this stage of my proficiency I find it hard to tell the difference between my teachers Stineway and my keyboard. I am sure that as I progress in my studies I will want to move up, but for now I am able to practice and grow.
What I am getting at is the (better) Keyboards are fine for most people and help them develop the skills that make the purchase of a good Grand Piano A more reasonable investment, and if you find that the Piano is not something you would like to persue use the money saved for a down payment on a house or buy a used car.
A keyboard is a good sub for a Grand in the hands of a novice.
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Author: Gnomon
Date: 2002-06-13 07:31
To buy a decent upright piano, you will have to pay at least $5000. An electronic keyboard will not be as good, but a good one with touch-sensitve keys and a good tone will probably not cost more than about $2000.
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-06-14 02:24
I have played the "top of the line" Roland electronic piano - no other patches, just piano. It sounded ok, but the "feel" was horrid. give me a grand any day.
The good thing about the Roland (or the like) is that you can put headphones on and play at 2am without pissing off you neighbours.
diz
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Author: Mark M
Date: 2002-06-14 20:04
Whew!!! After 20 some posts, nobody addressed my initial question. Will a less expensive keyboard with a computer do the same as an expensive keyboard? Electronically speaking only!!!! BTW, my wife is not an "accomplished" pianist. She just hasn't played forever and is thinking about getting back in and continuing.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-06-14 20:49
Mark M wrote:
>
> Whew!!! After 20 some posts, nobody addressed my initial
> question. Will a less expensive keyboard with a computer do
> the same as an expensive keyboard? Electronically speaking
> only!!!! BTW, my wife is not an "accomplished" pianist. She
> just hasn't played forever and is thinking about getting back
> in and continuing.
More or less, yes (if the mechanics of the keyboard are equivalent).
Less portable, of course.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-06-15 11:52
>> Whew!!! After 20 some posts, nobody addressed my initial
> question.
Probably because a simple answer/response might not be possible and because you seem to indicate that the instrument is primarily for your wife. Composing music using a cheap MIDI capable keyboard is technically easy(if not esthetically so). Playing it back can yield sound of widely varying quality. Maybe you should think about "his and hers" keyboards...a "less than 76 key" for you that you can connect to your computer and doodle around with and a "decent" 76 or 88 key MIDI capable one for your wife.
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Author: DLE
Date: 2002-06-15 23:27
My personal verdict: The question was a bit too personalised. The answer to it would always depend on the person's personal tastes.
Anyhow to answer the question - It depends what you're looking for. Keyboard with a computer is primarily used for composition I feel, rather than performing (Unless in a band setup, or other stage entertainment genres). An expensive keyboard with sounds, e.g. a 'Clavinova', will have greater 'playability' as well as arguable quality of sound of each instrument. Arguable of course, as that is my personal opinion.
However, if your wife DOES want to get back into full piano repertoire, only a real piano is going to do in my opinion (Again). I have a clavinova at home, but use pianos here at work. I find it alot less stressful to play a piano with real hammers hitting real strings. But then, that's just me.
DLE.
P.S. I'm not an expert on Bassoons, but isn't there an entry point to put the double reed into? I know this is not a 'mouthpiece' as such, but I would be curious to know what this is called, and what effect this has on the instrument in comparison with the reed positioning on a clarinet. Cheers.
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Author: Josh
Date: 2002-06-16 22:37
Bassoon reeds are not put *into* something, they're put *onto* something, and that something is a curved metal tube called a bocal. The reed's position on the bocal is not that variable, (if it's pushed on too hard, the bocal will ream out the inside of the reed, affecting sound quality and destroying the reed you just got 14 gray hairs making, and if it's not on far enough...it just falls off.) Tuning the bassoon (oxymoronic as that may sound :P) is done almost entirely by embouchure, although bocals are made in varying lengths, just like clarinet barrels, for tuning purposes.
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The Clarinet Pages
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