 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-06-07 02:32
Having read comments about clarinets on this BB for a year or so now, I've made some observations about certain clarinets that are just redundant.
The alto clarinet - I just can't see why the bridge between a "normal" clarinet and a bass clarinet was necessary - who invented the beast (not talking basset horn here!!) and why.
The contra-alto clarinet - likewise, the distance between the contra-bass clarinet and the bass clarinet seems fine - why put another instrument into the family.
Having said that - I love the tone qualities of all the clarinets (I must confess I've only heard a contra-alto once and just mistook it for a quirky bass clarinet until I saw it).
Your thoughts and ideas would be welcome.
When I wrote my four pieces for clarinet ensemble I chose an e-flat sop, 3 b-flat sops, an alto, bass and contra-bass. Maybe next time I'll write for the whole family - including the very sweet toned C clarinet - which I just love.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-06-07 04:27
Diz...I heard a rumor that the title of your next clarinet ensemble work will be:
"Serenade for a Grand Buffet of Clarinets" ...GBK
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-06-07 13:11
The contra-alto clarinet in EEb is very handy because one can play concert-pitch bass clef parts directly, by pretending they're in treble clef and adding three sharps. So it's easy to substitute for tuba, string bass, or contrabassoon using the EEb contra. As for alto clarinet, as I said in an earlier post --- fun to play, but no real purpose.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-06-07 13:11
guess I just don't get the message,diz. You are questioning why there are so many different clarinets? I dunno, why so many different musical instruments at all?
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Author: William Hughes
Date: 2002-06-07 14:18
The only clarinet I currently play is contra alto. I love the ability to pick up the bass clef parts as DS suggested. Since I've begun playing again and joined a community band on the contra alto, I've decided that the bassoon parts are my favorites...sometimes down there thumping with the tubas, sometimes singing with the French horns. I also enjoy bari sax parts on jazzier pieces. The chameleau of the contra alto is about as low as you can go and still call it a note, rather than a growl. The clarion is really sweet...someone here described it as cello-like. My next clarinet (and likely my last) is a Malerne-stencil alto purchased on eBay that I will ask DS to restore one of these days. I will then be the complete superfluous anachronistic redundant low E flat harmony clarinet player I have always aspired to be, thank you very much.
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-06-07 16:05
So someone else has noticed the unusual but sweet sound of the contra-alto's clarion register?
Since there's hardly any music out there for wind ensembles and concert bands written for contra (and less for orchestras, I'd imagine.) I always find myself playing completely different instrument parts and sometimes putting two parts together for the best sounding (and most difficult and most fun) arrangement you can find for clarinet.
As for altos, well... I'll let you know when I tame the bass...
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-06-07 17:27
I do subscribe to W H/D S comments re: the contra-alto. I have no experience there, but running into an occasional low D for my Eb bass, and that convenient "transpostion" of bassoon et al[quid] parts recommends it to me even tho I might have to learn [better] how to trans. Bb parts to an Eb horn!! Watch out, if I can figure how to explain to my BW, I may enter the bidding on a C A. [I have a lot of bari sax reeds just sitting there! {Add'l justification!}] Re: alto, fun to pretend its a B H, but in what I play it has little function, dern it. Don
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Author: Neil
Date: 2002-06-08 00:36
Maybe you should ask, "Why isn't there a tenor clarinet?"
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-06-08 01:12
A goodly number of our experts have pointed out that we indeed do have a truly tenor clarinet, we just call it a bass!! clarinet[wrongly, if we wish to abide by the S A T B vocal range naming]. That has led to the use of "contra" [wrongly??] for the even lower voices. A bit of analysis of BC registers shows its close relation to the tenor sax ["properly" named IMHO], except for those gorgeous lower notes to Eb [and extended to C] via the beneficial 12th overblowing [closed, cylindrical pipe] characteristic. I view this misnomer as an example of "resistance to change" in music, which is known elsewhere also. Comments/rebuttal?? Don
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Author: Paul
Date: 2002-06-08 02:15
Actually, to me it doesn't seem that the bass clarinet and tenor saxophone have that much in common, besides both being Bb instruments. The lowest note of the BC is Db below the bass staff (on low Eb instruments), which is the same as the lowest note as the bari saxophone. The lowest notes of the tenor saxophone and alto clarinet only differ by 2 semitones, and the lowest notes of Bb soprano clarinet and Eb alto saxophone are only a semitone apart. The overall ranges of the two instruments (clarinet and saxophone) are similar as well. It would seem to me that, if the alto clarinet could be considered "unnecessary" because its range is covered by the soprano and bass, then the same statement could be made about the tenor saxophone?
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Author: javier garcia
Date: 2002-06-08 15:08
I agree with the misname for "bass" clarinet. It may be called "tenor", following the human voice classment (soprano, alto, tenor and bass).
But there are difference in colour and timber for differents members of the clarinet family, so although the range for an alto clarinet is covered by soprano and bass, it gives another sound to the clarinet choir. Maybe the question is why composers don't write so frequently for alto as they do for soprano and bass.
Compositions for saxophones quartets (sop, alto, ten and bari) are very common.
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-06-08 17:29
Along those lines, I always wondered why there wasn't a "Soprano-oon!" (This IS a joke...)
:^)
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-06-08 18:25
There were soprano basoons in the baroque times,weren't there? And bass oboes? Talk about slight redundancy!
I have come up with the new nomenclature. (This is a joke, BTW, but it holds ground compared to saxophones):
Eb Sopranino/soprano/whatever is your "soprano".
Bb Soprano becomes "alto" (horrendous thought, isn't it?)
Eb Alto becomes "tenor"
Bb Bass becomes "baritone"
EEb Contra-alto becomes "bass"
BBb Contra-bass stays the way it is, taking out Contra-alto altogether.
I like our original one better.
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-06-08 18:27
Oh, wait! We forgot mezzo-soprano! And we still need to fit in the Basset Horns somewhere...
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-06-08 21:41
Looking into a number of our Good Books, Rendall, Brymer, Lawson, Baines, Pino etc, each goes into great detail re: the entire family. Rendall has a S A T B type listing [pg 4], in the category "Baritone and Bass", the C, Bb and A basses, separated from the contras. Also I found mention of the alto[s?] being called tenors by the British. Incidentally, the Basset HORN [F] is categorized as an alto, the Basset CLARINET [A] being a soprano and no mention of a Basset Bass, just extended range! I'll look in Groves Dict. and post if of interest. Maybe we should just "go with the flow" , history is hard to revise!! Don
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Author: beejay
Date: 2002-06-10 11:44
Isn't the basset horn a tenor? Or more precisely, a heldentenor? I've got one and I love its warmth in the low register and clarity in the higher.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-06-10 19:12
I found G's classifications [pg 430] of interest. Piccolo or Octave clarinets [4 entries, C Bb A Ab], Sopranino cl [5, G F E Eb D], Soprano [6, C B Bb A Ab G], Basset Horns [3, G F D], Alto [2, F Eb], Bass [3, C Bb A] , Contrabass [Pedal] cl [2, Eb Bb]. A mention of sub-classes under the SATB vocal range classification reminded me that our daughter-in-law said she was a "lyric" [operatic]soprano not a coloratura, mezzo or any other!! They have their own language! I would like to see "baritone" used for our bass cls, like with the sax and oboe families. Nuff said?? Don
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2002-06-13 02:52
William, if you did not buy it as yet there is another R. Malerne Alto on e-bay right now. I have salivated over it for a time,it would replace my old Buescher and DS would do as good a job on that as he did my R. Malerne (Conn Stencil. However my wife is adament--no more clarinets. Ugh! Have I considered divorce (no) Murder Yes! We both laugh about that.
Bob A
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Author: William Hughes
Date: 2002-06-13 14:13
Bob A. -
Thanks, but I have the Malerne alto (a Linton-stencil) in hand. I saw the current eBay listing and felt that same pang, but concluded, as you apparently have, that satisfying a mere yearning didn't justify an extended stay in the marital dog house.
William H.
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Author: Patrick Scully
Date: 2002-07-19 18:37
Diz,
I will also weigh in here in support of the contra alto clarinet, in general agreement with William Hughes, Don Berger and David Spiegelthal.
I'm lucky enough to have both BBb and Eb contra clarinets (Leblanc Models 340 and 350 respectively, both to low written C). Superficially, these horns are virtually identical, save for the difference in tuning; they share the paperclip shape, manufacturer, material, and even bore. Yet in my experience, they are quite distinct instruments -- musically and technically -- as different from each other as are the soprano and the alto saxophone (which is to say, a lot!). The Eb contra clarinet is also quite distinct from the Bb bass clarinet.
The Leblanc Eb contra clarinet (model 350) has the largest bore of the modern Eb contras, though it is the same bore as the big brother in BBb, the 340. It is also the only Eb contra in production with a standard range to low written C.
With a Charles Fobes "San Francisco" mouthpiece and Vandoren #3 reed, my Leblanc Eb contra has a lovely clarinet-like clarion, with a deep and robust chalumeau that has more volume and warmth than bass clarinet at unison. However, the 350 Eb can play almost an octave below the standard Bb bass clarinet, due to the extended range to low written C (equivalent to the F an octave below the lowest F on the bass clarinet). The altissimo is fully accessible on the model 350, with correct (contra) fingering technique; indeed at least 1 1/2 octaves of altissimo are available, giving the instrument a bona fide 5 octaves of range.
The Leblanc BBb contrabass clarinet, model 340, is a different animal, though also a very rewarding and useful instrument.
The 340, with range to written low C (earlier models have range to low D, but have an offsetting advantage I'll discuss presently), can play the lowest note of the standard contrabassoon, corresponding to the lowest Bb available on the piano. This beast rattles the windows and vibrates the players eyeballs at full song! It is a true contrabass voice, and just one of these can transform the sound of even a very large concert band.
Compared to the Eb 350, the BBb 340 has a "hollower", more bass clarinet-like sound in the chalumeu -- and this is despite its even greater "distance" from the bass clarinet (probably due to the comparatively narrow bore, for a BBb contrabass clarinet). The sound is still quite sonorous and blends well in ensemble work. Earlier low D models of the 340 have a warmer, richer, more saxophone-like sound in both chalumeau and clarion (probably due to the heavy silverplate and greater wall thickness). All 340s have a distinct clarion character, reedier than that of a bass clarinet, which some have compared with the tenor saxophone.
The BBb contras (and I understand this includes the Selmer model 41 as well) have a technically difficult and uncertain altissimo, because the notes betwen the written C above the staff and the written high F are not vented optimally by the double octave mechanism (which is a different mechanism than the one on the model 350). Special fingerings and techniques are required for these notes. However, with care, practice, and appropriate music, the BBb altissimo sound can come through. Interestingly, it is very clarinet-like, unlike the altissimo on the 350 (which is thinner).
In the final analysis? The clarinet choir and concert band need both Eb contra alto and BBb contrabass clarinets.
I find that I play the Eb about three times more often than I play my BBb; the model 350 Eb contra is not only the most versatile low clarinet, it is probably the most versatile low woodwind. In addition to parts written especially for the contra alto clarinet, the 350 can play all parts written for bass saxophone, baritone saxophone, and bassoon, as well as most parts written for the BBb contrabass clarinet (plays to its written low F), EEb contrabass saxophone (plays to its written low C), BBb tuba (plays to concert contra Eb), and Bb bass clarinet (plays at least to its high clarion C).
When the BBb contrabass clarinet is needed, however, there is no substitute. More and more concert band music includes a part for the BBb; and when parts for both Eb and BBb are present, the BBb part tends to be the less replaceable (when a part for only one of these is scored, the Eb is called for more often). It also is the best instrument to cross cue for the contrabassoon, and to provide reed sonority in unison with the BBb tuba.
I'm glad we clarinet players have both instruments at our disposal; the ensembles that use both Eb and BBb contra clarinets to best advantage will have optimum clarinet sonority and color.
Patrick
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