 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-05-27 05:39
Here's a challenge ... having just listened to a recording of Daphnis et Chloe Suite No. 2 (strange how you never hear Suite No. 1 played!). The bass clarinetists' keys clack quite audibly - at first I thought it was distracting, but then when I listened carefully (this is during the nightmare opening "birds and dawn" section) his clacketting has a, nice even sound - he's (she's?) obviously playing the part perfectly - though I can't think how, four sharps (someone will correct me here) and over the break AND on a bass clarinet - sheesh.
Orchestra - Czech (I think) on Naxos - wonderful interpretation, however.
Anyone else got any recordings with prominent clackings?
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-05-27 11:45
It is possible to pretty well eliminate clacketiness from clarinet mechanisms, even on bass clarinets, by a better-than-average technician. It can be rather time consuming, hence expensive, especially on a bass. I'm surprised that this is accepted in recordings. I put it on a par with heavy breathing and snorting by cello players.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-05-27 15:01
Personally I don't object to such "extraneous" noises on recordings because they lend a sense of reality frequently missing. After all, if you went to the live performance you'd hear the clacking and probably other noises as well. Too often the engineers remove what musicians might want to hear. If you visit the "Musica Bona" website you can even order those Cz recordings online. gday diz
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Author: John Gibson
Date: 2002-05-27 20:29
Check out the Artie Shaw Self Portrait 5 CD box set. Disc five has the Grammercy Five and Artie's phenomenal "jazz" version of Stardust complete with clackety keywork.
Aside from the key noise....it's interesting to hear how Stardust evolved from the original "hit" to the more soulful Grammercy 5 version. I'd recommend the Self Portrait box set to any serious studier of clarinet.....
John
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-05-27 22:35
g'day to you, too Bob ... yeah actually, I wasn't complaining about the noise ... rather I realised that it is a perfectly normal sound and I now hear it and rather like it.
There are certain conductors who sing along or hum (often very off pitch). At one Sydney Symphony Concert I actaully left at interval because I found the noise so irritating. Nearly as bad as mobile phones and pages beeping.
I told a woman sitting next to me (at the opera) that if her phone rang (it was turned on placed on her lap) I'd throw it up into the "gods". She turned it off.
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Author: Stéphane
Date: 2002-05-28 08:08
I recently went to a performance of a clarinet quatuor. They played the first tango of Piazzola's History of the tango, and the keys of the bass clarinet are used in different parts of the score as percussions! This gives a very nice effect and are an excellent use IMHO of the natural clacketty keywork of clarinets by Piazzola.
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Author: graham
Date: 2002-05-28 12:00
Page turning in concertos is my favourite extraneous noise. I have a Vivaldi Bassoon recording where the soloist must almost have torn the page in turning it over.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-05-28 13:35
I imagine page turns may soon become a thing of the past.
The album will be a computer screen the thickness of cardboard, the music lines will scroll up the page, and there may even be a little bouncy ball over the notes, guided by the conductor.
Hehe!
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Author: joevacc
Date: 2002-05-28 16:42
Gordon (NZ) wrote:
"...and there may even be a little bouncy ball over the notes, guided by the conductor.
Hehe!"
I could use that ball NOW! Can I automate it??? How about a foot pedal control?! The applications are endless!!!!! Please make one now. I'll buy it.
Until the technology allows a screen the "thickness of cardboard" could we build it into the stand itself???!
;~)
Best Regards,
-=[Joe Vacc]=-
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-05-28 23:19
A famous pianist (I forget which one -- Paderewski?) actually invented Joe's mechanism and used it in his recitals. He stepped on a foot pedal and the page turned. When someone asked him why he used the score, he replied "Because I can read music."
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Author: E. Michael Blake
Date: 2002-05-28 23:36
All this time I thought that one of the advantages of a pricey, pro-level clarinet (such as I don't own) was quiet action. On saxophone, I've come to accept the condition I call pad slap, in which the covering and release of the large tone holes in rapid-fingered pianissimo passages make the percussion audible and turns the horn into a one-player band, but I've assumed that pros, through placement of mikes or pickups, could get around this. On a clarinet, where tone delicacy can be so crucial, I'd think a pro would try very hard to avoid all things clacketty.
My own preference would be to produce only those sounds I want heard. As for extraneous noise in general, I find the vocal accompaniment of Thelonius Monk and Glenn Gould to be distracting, and in their cases I try to make allowances because of their diagnosable mental conditions. To everyone else I'd say: if you're going to produce extra sound, do so forthrightly--sing, don't mutter; mike the keywork, rather than let it barely break the surface of audibility.
Ah me, I've had to come across as Mr. Stuffshirt, when I should try to be tolerant and inclusive, and accept that we all make music in the real world, not a studio-sweetened bell jar. Never mind that I've been in radio dramas in which we made a point of getting high-rag paper that allowed for silent page-turns. Never mind that the folks who get paid to play music should be expected to develop techniques to reduce noise. Oh well, good clacketting to you all.
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-05-28 23:50
Michael - I agree with you about extraneous noise, in fact, as much as I adore Glen Gould's interpretations, I just can't bear to listen to him due to his very distracting and very noise vocalisations.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-05-29 13:14
In a show I may well change instrument 60 times in one night.
Perhaps I should be making clanky noises as they hit against eachother and their stands, during those quiet emotional times. That could make the show more 'real'. Really!!
I know a percussion player who does just that, but he doesn't know it - he's almost deaf!
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-05-29 13:18
diz, that's because he's speaking Canadian....ha. "Experts" often pawn off on us their own idiosyncrasies as to what is good and bad. There are some extraneous sounds in some recordings that I like and others that I don't....go figure.
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Author: dAVID dOW
Date: 2002-06-07 12:42
Easy there I'm Canadian and alot of the R13s are clonky!!!
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Author: dAVID dOW
Date: 2002-06-07 12:43
Can you play like Gould?
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