 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2002-05-05 23:46
How much can one change the tone (pitch characteristics) of a Bb clarinet by changing the barrell and using, possibly a shorter bell. Is, for example, it possible to be able to approximate a "C" clarinet by altering a Bb in this manner? If so how--if not, why not? Assume I am totally ignorant (true) about why my clarinet sounds like it does if you feel that necessary for me (and others) to understand your explanation.
Bob A
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Author: Burt
Date: 2002-05-06 00:04
There's very little you can do by changing the barrel length. A "C" clarinet is appx 10% shorter than a Bb. By shortening the barrel extremely, you could get the throat tones and upper joint notes high enough, but the instrument would not be in tune with itself. To do that, you would have to shrink the entire length appx 10%.
Before I had an "A" clarinet, I pulled way out at between the barrel and upper joint, also between the two joints, to get a poor excuse for an "A" clarinet. This allowed me to play along with recordings. {This was also before I had a variable speed tape deck.)
If you need to read "C" clarinet parts, transpose up a whole step. It's useful to learn this if you will play dance band work or cover oboe parts.
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-05-06 01:33
Bob - playing on a C clarinet is really the best option unless you're brilliant at transpoing at sight. Some can do it with fluency and others struggle. There are so many "inexpensive" Cs around nowadays that perhaps, if it's to your liking, just buy one (needn't be new).
I was talking to one of my orchestra's clarinetists on the weekend, he mentioned that depening on how "into the swing you get with it" it's often hard to turn your transpoing off when you get back to the proper B flat (or A) - this I found interesting.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-05-06 14:13
Bob - I suggest you look in Rendall, Brymer [and others] re: the history of "transposing clarinets" concerning horn-length vs pitch. I do recall, but cant find, at the moment, the discussion of the "pieces de rechange" technique for the use of [I believe] two upper joints to combine a Bb and C or a Bb and A, which was poor at best. If I can find more, will post, but the history is fascinating. Luck, Don
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-05-06 16:44
Diz,
It's true that it's hard to "turn off" the transposing. I play in a group which performs ethnic music for a dance company. I am the only person playing a transposing instrument. So, I read C parts all the time. I do find it difficult to stop transposing when I am in the same musical genre. When I teach students (from a classical perspective, since that's how I was trained), however, I have no problems. And when I first started reading C parts, I had the hardest time. In grad school, I remember having to work on some Rossini overture excerpt. Gosh, was I awful at the transposing! When I began playing other kinds of music, it was very difficult at first, and I stank at it. But like anything else, with practice and repetition, it does become easier.
I have yet to learn to read from a C part on an A clarinet, however!
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-05-06 18:11
Kat -
If you don't have a C clarinet, you practically have to play the big cadenza from Mozartiana on the A, where it's at least possible (which it's not on the Bb).
Ken Shaw
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Author: E. Michael Blake
Date: 2002-05-06 20:00
While we're more or less on this subject, is there already an existing thread (or just a packet of information anywhere on this site) on clarinet acoustics? I can see how changing barrel length can put the instrument out of tune with itself, because the positioning of all the tone holes would have to be changed to accommodate the new length. Is there precise math on this? Does polycylindricality affect this, so it isn't just the logarithmic progression of cylindricality? Are tone holes placed so that the top of the hole (the first point of escape) governs the tone, or the center of the tone hole?
Just asking . . .
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2002-05-06 20:00
Y'all are just trying to talk me into learning to transpose. Do you realize how hard that is going to be for an old geezer with a tired brain who shys away from even buying green banannas, reading continued stories or watching 2-part TV's episodes.
I just had the part of Senator Jack S. Phogbound in our Community Theatres production of Li'l Abner and the cutie who played Daisy Mae told me she was a pre-mortuary student in College. In every scene when she looked at me I got to thinking she was measuring me and I almost missed my lines! And you want me to learn theory and transpose? Arrrgh!!!
Ok, OK, there a short easy way to do it or not? Remember, I play mostly by ear and am just getting back into reading music. I'll read about three bars and then If I know the tune finish it off by ear. A fault I know, but I've always done it that way.
I'll take all the help offered (and it don't have to rhyme). Thanks
Bob A
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-05-07 02:23
Ken-
I don't play much classical anymore, mostly just the ethnic stuff. I realized about 11 years ago I really didn't wanna play in an orchestra and be forced to play stuff like Tchaikovsky (ironically!)
That said, I play with these string players who like stuff in A major or A hejaz. It can be kind of tough on Bb, but it's usually possible. I did learn one tune on A, but I had to write it out first! I also play a couple of Czech tunes on A because they're IN A. At least our music is...I think the transcription was done from a slow tape recorder!
Kat
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Author: Charlie C.
Date: 2002-05-08 02:34
Bob A. .. I'm glad there's at least one other 'geezer' on the list. I dig not buying green bananas. One never knows, do one? ;-{ But to get to the point of your question re modifying a Bb to either C or A. I've tried it, it just don't work. I'm trying to find an inexpensive ( translate that as cheap) A clarinet. I've played in our church praise band for the past 5 years since I retired, and the charts are nothing more than words with chord symbols, and they are in the keys of D, E, or A (invariably) sometimes with modulations through all three keys in the same song. I can handle these keys ok on tenor sax, but if I pick up the clarinet the key of E concert just doesn't 'flow' , at least for these arthritic fingers. Needless to say, I'm an 'ear' player also, just use the spots to learn the arrangement, and from then on it's in my head. Good luck clarineting, and don't forget - happiness is a wet Rico Royal. ;-)
Charlie C.
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Author: Lee
Date: 2002-05-15 20:15
Charlie C. There is another of us on the list. I purchased an old A clarinet for use in our church orchestra. I found out that on B maj pieces that you can play the music up a step and subtract all 5 sharps ie play in the key of Bb concert. BTW when I got the clarinet I had to have the barrel joint shortened ablut 1/4 in to play in tune but when another player used it for a gig she had to pull out both ends of the barrel and between the joints to play in tune. I don't understand why. You need to come join our church because we almost always have normal music although some times it is manuscript. When there is not a clarinet part I normally transpose the viola part for the clarinet section.
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Author: Rich Downey
Date: 2002-06-09 20:42
Hi Bob,
I too am an aspiring O.F. clarinetist. I started a t age 62 and found transposition easier since I also play by ear. Once I get started on the "right" note and drill through some of the passages with which I'm not as familiar, it seems to go pretty well.
Keep at it!
Dick
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