 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-05-02 03:10
A flute teacher friend of mine and I have a disagreement. I claim that ANYONE can play an instrument to a level of proficiency they desire AS LONG AS they have the determination. She doesn't think so. What do you all think? Hopefully I'm not opening too big a can of worms here!
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-05-02 03:12
p.s. I'm not ultimately looking for a way to convince her I'm right or for someone to convince me I'm wrong. Just looking for OPINIONS! ;-)
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2002-05-02 03:31
My mother, bless her dear departed soul, played piano "to a level of proficiency". Unfortunately everthing she played sounded like it was written by John Phillip Sousa. And also unfortunately I am begining to believe that I may have inherited her ponderous sense of tempo.Bob A
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Author: Cindy
Date: 2002-05-02 04:05
I think that that "level of proficiency" you speak of is more to the person themselves than to the professional music teacher (no offense to anyone). If someone who loves music cannot play worth beans, they may still be able to create music that they themselves think of as wonderful, even though others may shriek and run away. So, yes, I think anyone can play a musical instrument to the level of proficiency they wish to achieve. For example, my little sister has taken to the piano. She has never had a lesson in her life, and generally sits there are hits random notes until someone tells her to stop, but she thinks it is the greatest music in the world.
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-05-02 04:38
I've heard a few (older) people tell me that they wished they'd learned an instrument when they were youngsters. My usual response "carpe deim". The only thing I do recommend with "the older folk" is not to take up violin or viola as the left arm needs to be "bent inwards" and this is more easily done when a youngster and your bones are more flexible. Thought I'd hate to disuade anyone from "having a go" at any instrument. As to clarinets or other instruments - I say go for it, not matter what talent you might think you possess. Who gives a toss if you sound like someone pulling a cat's tail, eventually you'll make a more or less pleasant noise.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2002-05-02 05:14
The really proficient players I know have paid their dues. Music is the thing they live and pracice endlessly for. With sufficient desire, money, time and some basic intelligence, most people could become very accomplished musicians, I believe. If you follow the right/left brain dominance ideas, one could conclude that the right brain dominant people become more involved in music. It would be interesting if someone is expert on those ideas and could tell us more about them. By the way, oboes, harps, bassoons, heckelphones, etc require a lot of money to acquire, thus making it difficult to get going on them. Good Luck!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-05-02 05:22
"Can everyone play music?"
1. Can everyone program a VCR?
2. Can everyone sit on the floor with their legs crossed?
3. Can everyone dance?
etc...etc...etc...GBK
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Author: Eoin
Date: 2002-05-02 07:27
To add to GBK's list, Can everyone learn as an adult to speak French fluently?
A good sense of pitch is needed to sing and to play certain instruments: violin, viola, cello, trombone, French horn. The best way to develop such a sense of pitch is to be immersed in music for the first five years of your life. If you don't get this exposure to music, you will find it much more difficult to be "instinctively musical". But this should not stop you learning an instrument which does not rely on a good sense of pitch, such as piano or clarinet.
Many people can learn to read music and play an instrument reasonably well, giving themselves and others enjoyment, even though they can not sing in tune.
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Author: Mindy's Mom
Date: 2002-05-02 12:32
You state "to a level of proficiency THEY desire". Herein lies the determining factor. The answer is NO!!!!! Everyone has limits and everyone is Different. When I was a music major at university, my roommate was a voice performance major and I was a music ed major with an emphasis in voice and piano. Kandi could sing WONDERFULLY!!!! Oh I wanted to sing "just like her". But, alas, it was not to be. My gift is in teaching younger children to love piano and singing, etc and her gift was to sing in front of millions of people and bring them to their feet and develop other singers at the university level. No matter how hard I tried and how determined I was (both of which describe me), I could never sing to HER level of profeciency. I sing very well and I have reached a level of profeciency that I feel works for me, but there are limits to my voice and it is not suited for the level of profeciency that I wanted to acheive when I started my career in music long time ago.
So --- when you add the words "they desire" that changes the dymanics of the question. If you leave those words out, the answer is YES === they will acheive SOME LEVEL of profeciency. If they are added in, then the answer is NO.
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2002-05-02 14:09
To thy own self be true.
After three years and many hours of blowing the clarinet I am happy for what I have achieved. I will never be Benny but My goal is to be better next year then I am today.
I sure a heck of a lot better today then I was a year ago.
This makes me happy. After all I play for me and not for the millions that never will hear me play.
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Author: Mitch A
Date: 2002-05-02 14:18
Go Bob!!! "I sure (am) a heck of a lot better today then I was a year ago."
So true. See my post in "Daily Excersises".
Mitch
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Author: BeckyC
Date: 2002-05-02 14:31
What's funny to me is........and this is not in all cases, just some.
Is for those who play so-so think they sound GREAT. No inhibitions.
And those that sound great (maybe perfectionist) never think it sounds good enough.
There are days I am one, and days I am the other.
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Author: monica
Date: 2002-05-02 15:18
I BELIEVE EVERYONE CAN PLAY MUSIC, JUST SOME BETTER THAN OTHERS. FOR WHAT BECKY SAID, IT'S TRUE, BUT I ALWAYS PREFER TO LISTEN TO THE ONE'S WHO PLAY SO-SO AND THINK THEY'RE GREAT. IT MAKES ME HAPPIER TO LISTEN AND I ENJOY THEY'RE BOISTROUS ATTITUDE AS THEY SAY " LOOK WHAT I CAN DO!" THE PERFECTIONS ARE NOT ALWAYS AS FUN AS THEY ARE ALWAYS POINTING OUT THE BAD PARTS OR STOPPING MID-PLAY AND SAYING "WAIT, I CAN DO THAT BETTER".MUSIC IS PLAYED BY PEOPLE NOT MACHINES AND IS MENT FOR ENJOYMENT NOT CRITIZING.THAT'S JUST MY OPINION.
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Author: William
Date: 2002-05-02 15:20
There is only one rule, "you gotta wantta." Anyone can do anything with the only limitations being their innate personal aptitudes--talents that they are "born with." Ex.--I can write music, but I will never replace Beethovan; I can play the clarinet, but I'll never replace Larry Combs (or Anker Bilk, for that matter) But, I like what I am doing and therefore have pursued it as my life's vocation. Bottom Line: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink--unless you discover the "stream" that the "horse" is interested in. Just Do It!!!!! (if you want to) Good Clarineting!!!!!!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-05-02 16:31
William wrote:
>
> Anyone can
> do anything with the only limitations being their innate
> personal aptitudes--talents that they are "born with."
Almost. At 5'2" I never had any pretensions that I was going to play professional basketball or football ...
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2002-05-02 17:26
When I hear any sentence with 'any' applied to general public not necessarily related to music, I always deny it. Just a kind of semantics.
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Author: William
Date: 2002-05-02 20:36
Mark: In trying to somewhat answer "can anyone play music" theme of this thread, my "gotta wantta" answer meant that for people to become active in any activity, they must first be motivated to do so. And after trying, they may find that they are satisfying their interests and are having fun, but discover that they lack certain innate or "born with" aptitudes or abilities to become truely great, or pursue a professional career. Yet, they may very well enjoy a lifetime of "amature level" envolvement and fun. Guess I'm too "wordy." Bottom Line: Anyone can do anything--the only prerequesite is interest or desire. The limitations are the extent to which we possess the innate, natural abilities for the activities that we choose. True happiness is liking and choosing to do what we are are best equipped mentally and physically to do.
Didn't you ever kick a football or shoot a hoop just for fun???? (even though the mirror reflected a distinct vertical challege) There's always the NHL for shorter guys like us--or the clarinet!!
Good Clarineting!!! (how about that golf game?????)
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-05-02 23:57
I must say that reading all your answers to my decidedly open-ended and broad-based question has been interesting. Some further thoughts...
What Mindy's mom says is true for singers. One's physical limitations are certainly the important factor there. I'd love to be able to sing bass, but no matter how many cigarettes I'd smoke, it'd never happen! (and no, I don't smoke!)
I have an adult beginner clarinet student. She's studied for about a year and a half. When she was a child, she was told she was tone-deaf and could NEVER play an instrument. A similar thing happened to my mom many years ago also. My student, while not the fastest progresser I've got, has managed to ENJOY herself. She frequently has a great tone, and has really learned a lot about music in general as well.
I'm not saying she'd ever play professionally, but her GOAL is to have fun, and she meets it and, I believe, exceeds it.
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Author: Jim E.
Date: 2002-05-03 04:35
The basic limitation of singing is the ability to reproduce a heard pitch with at lease some accuracy. Those who can do this can sing to some extent, even if they don't read music! Not everyone can do this. We had one guy in out church choir for 10 years who couldn't do it. No one would sit by him. He was no dummy (actually he's a judge!) and realized his inability and even spoke of it, but he so enjoyed the music that he stayed. (We have one of the most tolerant directors I've ever met!)
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Author: Clairgirl
Date: 2002-05-03 05:59
Do you think that this ability to sing a given pitch with accuracy is genetic?
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Author: jez
Date: 2002-05-03 13:57
Kat.
the great thing about music is that one can enjoy it at many different levels. Not everyone will be able to play at the highest standard, but that doesn't stop them getting a lot out of it.
I play different instruments at different levels, but I get no less pleasure from struggling to play easy music on an inst. I'm not very good at than playing at a higher level, probably more, because I'm doing something of my own choice rather than just having to churn out whatever dots are put in front of me.
Your pupils story reminds me that I was given up at the age of 6 or 7 by a piano teacher who advised my parents that I was completely unmusical and was wasting his time and their money.
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Author: Michelle
Date: 2002-05-03 14:20
Well---obviously there are different degrees of natural ability and that depends on genetics. However, we also have to consider what others have said in that some people have this ability and never foster it whereas others may have a lesser degree of this ability but work really hard. Who in the end achieves a higher proficiency?Clearly the individual who worked hard and fostered what of the ability he had--even if it is nominal.
Another thing---Mind'ys mom's comments are true for anything--be it music or whatever. Of course we desire to do the best we can, but sometimes what we want to be our best and what actually is our best don't match up. We just have to take what we have and develop it as much as possible.
Finally--on the tone deafness thing--there is no such thing. I've been in an ongoing debate about this with someone else (he's not a musician, and he claims he's tone deaf) and I have yet to prove him otherwise--I probably never will just because....
But yeah, tone deafness doesn't exist.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2002-05-03 14:58
Your teacher probably has the right attitude because your proposition seems unprovable
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-05-03 16:50
A few eons ago, when I was a lad in high school (out in CA, of all places) and a music major at that, part of a required music class I took was devoted to music dictation. We'd listen to a song played on the piano two or three times, then wrote what we heard. The teacher and I soon discovered, interestingly, that I was writing the tunes in the clarinet key. It was great ear training, listening for the intervals and all, but I was hearing it and transposing it to the Bb instrument key. It didn't really matter much, as long as we got the note relationships right - that was the purpose. Some were excellent at it. Others, including myself, were so-so and some were okay but frustrated. My guess is that anyone can learn anything enough to enjoy doing it if they put their mind to it I've met many people who can play circles around me by ear and never had a minute of 'training'... they just love playing music.
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2002-05-03 18:58
maybe the question should be "what is music?'
when i hear some of the heavy metal, some r&r, in my mind that is not music. However I'm sure they think it is the greatest sound in the world.
To each is own
I still like Anker Bilk.
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Author: mike gee
Date: 2002-05-03 19:33
Ok, let us not get into too philosophic. I asked the same question many time in my life. Whenever people asked me says ' oh, you play piano too?' I alway reply said : let define play first. ' I think the question of "Can anyone play this, Can anyone do sports? etc. the answer is definitely yes. Do you enjoy of doing some music, sports, reading, etc that is genetic and training. -mg
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2002-05-06 18:03
Recently after reading your post, I watched a TV programme that deaf young people are ensembling together. Pop music. That seemed a miracle to me. So your opinion is right in some cases.
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