 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: RogerM
Date: 2002-04-28 12:29
It is estate planning time. Unfortunately, it is certain my wife (who has ovarian cancer) will die before 2010---the one year in which the estate tax is eliminated. The next year the law reverts back to 2001 unless Congress acts (dont ask how this mess came about) Anyway we are starting to worry about estate planning.
All intruments are in near mint condition
My wife has a Haynes SJD flute purchased in 1999 (after we were married with joint funds---it is hers however). I believe it is worth 5000
I have the following all purchased prior to our marriage
1. Cueson Tenor Sax purchased in 1961
2. Vito Alto sax purchased in 1978
3. Yamaha tenor sax (top of line) purchased in 1983
4. R-13 Bd and A clarinets purchaased in 1983 and 1984
5. Yamaha YBS 62 bari sax purchased in 1994
Can anyone give me an idea of the values of the above. The lawyer will will draft our wills will need to know.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2002-04-28 14:00
Roger, you need to go to a music store and get a dealer to write up a retail value estimate for you. Our opinions (however expert they may appear) won't hold up in court.
You have plenty of time before 2010. Sell these instruments before they have to go into an estate sale. Your wife could enjoy the money for something she might be able to do before while she still feels well enough. Or, she might need the money for her illness.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2002-04-28 17:53
They may best sold on ebay with the possible exception of the most valuable items. It could depend upon where you live. In Los Angeles, the Recycler paper is one way to get the word out but the local newspaper is inadequate.
One can only make guesses of values but here are some:
Couesnon tenor sax - under $1000
Vito alto sax - $300(some of these were great)
Yamaha tenor sax - $1500(could be a great instrument)
R13 clarinets - $800 to $1200 each depending on condition and sound
Yamaha baritone sax - $2500 to $3500 depending on condition and
sound
Each person's situation is different. For myself, I would sell what I can for cash at an appropriate time and give the rest to my children to sell and split the proceeds without involving the will, the estate, or lawyers. Having spent two hours with a lawyer on Friday, I see a need for them, however. One can also use the services of various instrument brokers who seem to deal on a cash basis with a percentage commission, which, in the case of my oboe, was 10%. Some instrument repair persons do this on the side. The local music store may not be expert enough to evaluate or sell these items and will probably wish to ensure a significant profit to make it worth their time. Good luck!
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Author: RogerM
Date: 2002-04-28 19:48
Thanks everyone. We are not really thinking of selling these instruments at this time as we use them frequently.
The value would be to make sure all assetts were left to our heirs (our children being hers from a former marriage) which include her children and my relatives in a manner that would avoid a will contest Proper planning can avoid will contests.
Wes---appreciate the guidelines. While we are not going to be in court it is good enough for our planning purposes.
By the way, I am a lawyer (municipal ordinance codification) and hence I worry about things.
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Author: Willie
Date: 2002-04-29 03:25
I tend to agree with Brenda here. As for e-Bay, don't get your hopes up. Most people who buy off eBay are cheap turkeys like me looking for an exceptional deal. If you do go eBay, put a reserve price (minimum) or you may have to part with a horn for far less than its worth. Brenda can tell you more on this as she has an good deal of experience with eBay.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-04-29 17:58
The Haynes flute is probably the most valuable item. If it's the LJD model http://www.wmshaynes.com/ljdflute.html (instead of SJD, which isn't listed on their site), it sells new for $5,600 http://www.wmshaynes.com/flutes.html. The same for the regular model http://www.wmshaynes.com/regularflute.html. If it's the hand-made French model http://www.wmshaynes.com/handmade.html, it sells for $8,500.
You should insure it for the current new price. For estate planning purposes, it does little good to set a value now, since all property will have to be reappraised as of the date of death. For used instruments, any reasonable depreciation amount (beginning at the original price paid) should be acceptable, but you will need the advice of an estate planning attorney at the time. If everything except the flute is your property, it shouldn't pass through your wife's estate. If the flute is jointly owned, it should come to you without tax. You should ask the will drafter how the current ownership should be handled to minimize taxes. Remember, though, that sometimes minimizing taxes isn't your only goal. The flute is obviously important to your wife, and that may well stand ahead of tax considerations.
Everyone wishes the best for you and your wife.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Rob
Date: 2002-04-29 23:35
Ken Shaw wrote "If the flute is jointly owned, it should come to you without tax."
This may not necessarily be true if it is indeed jointly owned (as a community property asset and not owned as joint tenants with rights of survivorship), was acquired during your marriage and you reside in a community property state. The succession of ownership of community property can vary from state to state (for those states that are considered "community property" states - TX CA WI AZ NM WA - and others I cannot recall)and the portion of community property owned by a deceased spouse can still become a part of the decedent's estate for distribution by the court-appointed estate representative. It may be possible for that portion of community property to also be considered a part of the taxable estate. If you are working with an attorney on your estate plan, I suggest you consult them on this point to be certain. Among the primary goals of most estate plans is to reduce the taxable estate and avoid probate, which can be a costly, time-consuming and emotionally draining experience. You are both wise and kind to prepare yourself ahead of time. It will allow you to devote all of your time and attention to your wife as you near the day.
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Author: RogerM
Date: 2002-04-30 11:12
Probably the two most common points of challenge of a will in probate is undue influence on the testator and the testatr's lack of testimentary capacity.
As to testimentary capacity, the test (at least in most states) is whether the testator knew the extent of his property and whether the testator knew the natural objects of his bounty. (You can be legally insane and still have testimentary capacity.)
My wife and I will do a joint will and it was important that we have knoweledge of the value of the instruments for the first prong of the testatmentary capacity test. (We may well state the approximate value in the will).
Our family is not disfunctional, but I believe in making things airtight.
Actually, I thing we are probably exempt from estate taxes (not enought assetts) as it now stands, but with the lunacy that has been going on in Congress lately, you never know.
Thanks everyone for the advise.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2002-05-01 18:57
Selling on eBay can be an absolute nightmare~or a great delight! I've sold hundreds of items to mostly wonderful buyers, but every once in a while I've gotten a really bad experience with a buyer. It's always worked out, but Willie is right when he says everyone wants a really, really low price (usually below your cost). However, with estate things you don't have to worry about making a profit and can usually get a good price if everything is in good condition and you have a camera for photos. Photos really help you potential buyer to see what they're getting. A good description disclosing anything that's not perfect about the instrument is also essential. And, I offered a money back guarantee--that is also important. You can always resell the item and it's important for buyers to be happy. But, I went broke, broke, broke!!! All due to a few mistakes on my part in buying. Well so much for that.
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