 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Sneakers
Date: 2002-04-28 03:34
How does everyone feel about professional players or former professional players who complain about not being able to get full-time positions at universities because they don't have a master's or doctorate? I think they have a lot to offer, but if they want a job at a university, they should quit complaining and get the degrees. I only mention this, because as usual I am frustrated. I am tired of listening to a very excellent violin player complain about this. She obviously did not plan for the day when she might no longer be able to play professionally due to physical restrictions.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-04-28 03:40
Personally I'd rather have a teacher who can (or could) rather than one with a lot of letters behind their name when it comes to performance. Music history or fields such as that - I'd in most cases reverse that.
What will getting a masters or DMA do for the performing teacher at this point in their lives? They've already demonstratrd that they have the techical capabilities to perform. They may or may not be a good teacher, but the letters after the name won't change much at this point in their careers.
Most teachers would <b>not</b> want me in their classrooms at this point - I'd be arging with them constantly ...
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Author: Kim
Date: 2002-04-28 04:16
I'm with Mark. I'm more likely to trust someone that has proven that s/he can or could do the job than someone with lots of degrees. This is not to say that there aren't some people who are more gifted teachers than performers and vice versa.
I have known of people with a Bachelor's degree or less teaching at conservatories as a result of impressive performance credentials. Perhaps your violinist friend is applying at the wrong places for teaching jobs, or perhaps her performance credentials aren't quite strong enough to for her lack of advanced degrees to not matter.
Kim
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Author: Jim Mougey
Date: 2002-04-28 09:51
I know a very respected composer-conductor who was offered the chair of the music dept if he would complete his doctoral. His answer, "Who would teach me what?" I know a world renowned trumpeter being offered a teaching endowed chair at a major university who has a degree, not certain of status graduate or undergraduate. A superior teacher and person!
This argument is an old saw and has no resolution. You pays your money and you takes your choice. However, great playing credentials doesnot a great or even good teacher make. Been there 2 times, done that.
Jim(M)
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Author: forest@woodwind.org
Date: 2002-04-28 15:10
Sneakers,
Careful about your last statement.
I wonder if some of the PhDs and DMAs "planned" for the day their "mental" restrictions would kick in??? With age, many suffer not only from the obvious physical decline...but with a decline in mental capability as well.
"now where did I put those keys?" :-)
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Author: William
Date: 2002-04-28 16:51
Sneakers--Don't "premadonna" violinists always complain about everything, anyhow?? Or is that just my imagination. While they are concerned with all their little bowing and seating problems, if is wasn't for us wind players to establish a tonal center for the strings to grasp and hang onto, there is no telling what tonalities they may unknowingly drift into. And isn't it also true that wind sections always look to the Principal Clarinetist to set the "mood" of the work being performed?? And who always enables the Principal Clarinetist to sound their best (by adjusting intonational discrepancies and keeping track out measures rests, etc)??????--it is the Second Clarinet(!!!)--who actually is responsible for holding the whole orchestra together, but never gets asked by the conductor to stand up and take a bow. Good Clarineting!!!! (BTW--proud to be Second and still waiting for my bow)
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Author: Sneakers
Date: 2002-04-28 18:30
William - Your response answers the questions on my post about "Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun". We didn't have a second clarinet player, no wonder the orchestra fell apart!
Thanks to the rest of you for your responses too. I can't even remember to look for my keys!
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-04-29 05:30
I think Ms. Wilma Smith (Concert Master of the Melbourne Symphony), might take umbridge at your remarks, William, apart from being a very fine soloist in her own right, she's a very humble woman in a VERY tough job.
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Author: Gregory Smith
Date: 2002-04-30 04:10
William explained:
"...if is wasn't for us wind players to establish a tonal center for the strings to grasp and hang onto, there is no telling what tonalities they may unknowingly drift into. And isn't it also true that wind sections always look to the Principal Clarinetist to set the "mood" of the work being performed?? And who always enables the Principal Clarinetist to sound their best (by adjusting intonational discrepancies and keeping track out measures rests, etc)??????--it is the Second Clarinet(!!!)--who actually is responsible for holding the whole orchestra together..."
==================================================================
I'll second that William! Quite an astute observation. :P)
Gregory Smith
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Author: j
Date: 2002-05-03 19:25
Personally, I think that there are some very good reasons for universities to hire people with a PhD or Masters over those who don't have either.
One reason is that if you're teaching at a university, you're acting not only as a private music teacher but also as an advisor for graduate students. How can you expect to advise graduates (e.g. supervise their thesis) if you've never been through the process yourself?
Another reason is that the universities want to attract students. The weaker the credentials of the teachers, the harder it is to rope in the best young musicians. (Of course, the academic credentials mean less if the person is principal in a major orchestra, a recording artist, or the like - somehow I get the feeling that the person you're talking about is not in this category.)
Thirdly, there are a lot of things learned in graduate school that go beyond learning to play well. An example is a comprehensive understanding and knowledge of music theory and music history (beyond the level learned at the undergraduate stage, of course.) To me, it seems important that the teacher know more than the student not just when it comes to playing the clarinet, but also when it comes to the music-related academics.
Of course, this isn't true for all people in all situations. However, if this is the way the system seems to work in most cases, your friend is a fool to ignore it.
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